Planning to move lots of dirt

SCOOBY14B · Feb 12, 2006

I have never run a paddle pan, but spent way too much time on an open pan (Cat 621) to be exact. They aren't rocket science, but still takes some time to perfect.

At least on an open pan you can't get a full load without a pusher. It takes some time to figure out the exact science of initial digging depth for the run.

The plan of using the trackhoe and dumptrucks is good, but WAY, WAY slower than a pan.

Good luck playing in the dirt.

DKinWA · Feb 13, 2006

In that case, the bid does seem on the high side. I was telling my operator about it and we were kicking some different ideas around. One thought was to bring in a 20 ton excavator and rent a off road rock truck and the roller. Use the 450 to push the 6" of topsoil into several piles on all four pad sites and then bring in the rental equipment (or buy it if you want). Then use the excavator to load the spoils and truck to waste site with the off road truck. Once you've removed the spoils, you could use the excavator and truck to bring in your base material.

You could haul enough material to each pad for a lift and then switch both operators to the dozer and roller. One pushing and the other rolling at the same time. I'd also have a materials testing company or similar on call to come out and check compaction regularly. They can help you determine when you've got optimum compaction and can also recommend changes to get optimum compaction. It's not cheap by some standards, but it may be worth it to protect your investment. It may also be necessary to have some water available on site if the dirt gets too dry for good compaction.

40Kchicks · Feb 13, 2006

Scooby
Your input is just what I was looking for. I love excavators but when I started calculating scoops it just didn’t seem like the right tool. The excavator and trucks would take a lot more man power I believe. How does a scraper perform with field stones?

DK
Off road truck rental prices are pretty high. Do you think the field stones will cause problems with the scraper and the excavator would be a safer bet?

Tom_H · Feb 13, 2006

( At least on an open pan you can't get a full load without a pusher. )

Scooby,

I know what you're talking about. When I was a kid, they didn't have paddlewheels. Often a dozer was used on the front to pull and another on the back to push. The earliest of these were gasoline powered and didn't have the power of a diesel. Next came the two wheel rubber tire front tractor which still required dozer pushers. Finally the paddlewheel freed the earthmover from need for push assist.

For anyone interested, here are some links to Carry-all Scraper Earthmovers, some are designed with a push assist point and others are not. Several are small enough to be pulled by a full sized Ag tractor and others even small enough to be pulled by a utility tractor.

John Deere Carry-all Scrapers

Strobel Industries Earth Moving Equipment

Ashland Earthmovers

A page showing history and different styles of earth movers

Reynolds Carry-all scrapers for pull by rubber tire Ag tractors

Orthman Soilmover Scrapers

I.M.C. Scrapers

Kuntz Scrapers

SCOOBY14B · Feb 13, 2006

( Scooby
Your input is just what I was looking for. I love excavators but when I started calculating scoops it just didn’t seem like the right tool. The excavator and trucks would take a lot more man power I believe. How does a scraper perform with field stones?

DK
Off road truck rental prices are pretty high. Do you think the field stones will cause problems with the scraper and the excavator would be a safer bet?
)

Not real sure how big of a stone you are speaking of. Rocks of all sizes can be a problem. If you hit it with the lead of the cutting edges it generally just pushes it. This causes a "gouge" in the cut. Another problem is if it pushes to the side out of the cut. This usually leads to one of the rear wheels running over it and interrupting the cut. You can cut with rocks in there, just gonna be slower.

Also, stripping topsoil with a pan is much faster than with a dozer.

Operating a pan just takes some time to learn. Heck, before I FINALLY got off pan duty I was final grading with the pan. One guy would walk ahead of me with a grade rod and let me know how much to cut or fill (usualle 1-3 inches). Who needs a finish dozer or grader?

When stripping topsoil (at least with an open pan) you can usually get a near full bowl without a push. Just keep your speed up. If the pan starts to bog down, lift the bowl. When you stop, don't stay on the gas. All you're doing is burning fuel and tires. Even when pushing, you don't wanna spin your tires.

Good luck. Operating a pan is fun as **** in the Fall or Spring. But when it gets really cold, hot, or dusty...it sucks!!!

Also, if you're traveling long distances...make sure the pan has an operating cushion hitch. Just remember to deactivate the cushion hitch before starting to cut.

DKinWA · Feb 13, 2006

I really don't know how much the rocks will affect a scraper. It just sounded like you were more comfortable and experienced with the truck/excavator route. I don't have any seat time on a scraper, but they just look like a difficult machine to learn on your own. With my luck, I'd end up damaging something that costs me twice as much to repair as I hoped to save by doing it myself.

Another thought would be to rent the scraper and hire a qualified operator to run it. Hiring a good operator would also cut down on your rental time and let you do the other things your comfortable and experienced at.

If you're not too far south (portland is about 2 hours drive) of me, I might be willing to come down and work with you on the project. I only bid residential work and I'm looking for some bigger projects to get my feet wet on this year.

40Kchicks · Feb 14, 2006

Scooby

Your input confirms what I was thinking about the speed and ease of use of the scraper. A neighbor and good friend of mine was a turkey farmer yeas ago in California. He got to us one when he was building barns and said that they were pretty easy to use. I’ll let you all know what I find

Thanks again
Eric

40Kchicks · Mar 9, 2006

Update:

I have a couple more bids to go on an a lot more information.

Right now the best bid is $71,000. He will use a huge dozer (D8 size Terex), a JD 650 dozer for brushing out rocks, a JD 120 excavator for trenching, a sheeps foot roller for compaction, and a Terex paddle scraper. He estimates it will take 35 days total.

The next bid is $130,000 and they will use excavators, dozers, sheeps foot rollers and trucks.

It looks like this will be an easy decision after all.

Eric

EddieWalker · Mar 9, 2006

WOW, 35 days with all that equimpent really clarifies the size of the job. No way you could handle a job that big on your own!!! In fact, for all that equipment and 35 days, the price sounds pretty cheap.

Eddie

ocaj11 · Mar 9, 2006

One bid for $140,000 and one bid for $71,000 to do the same thing??? Do you have any idea why the low bid is so much less?? I can understand bids of 130K and 140K, but why is this one bid so much lower?? Interesting for sure.....