Post-Purchase Depression and Upgraditis

[glennmac]

I'm depressed.

After hundreds of hours researching tractors, visiting dealers in three states, getting internet quotes, reading (nay, memorizing) this forum and the CTB, narrowing down my choices to Kubota, suffering severe pre-purchase analysis paralysis, deciding on a BX, and then laboriously negotiating prices--after all this, I have come to the conclusion, after 2 weeks and 24 tractor hours, that I bought too small a tractor.

The BX is a mowing dynamo; it scoots and darts over my two acres of lawn, and around my 24 trees (more of these to come) like mighty mouse. Even with the loader and weight box, I can cut close enough to my young trees that I hardly need to finish them. But I am disappointed in the other-than-mowing performance.

I mean I heard you all a zillion times: "buy the biggest machine you can afford"; "no one ever wished for less power"; "buy the biggest machine that you can turn around in on your property, or that you can store"; "you will grow into a big machine"; etc, etc. In fact, this flavor of advice to novices is so overwhelming on this board that I actually reacted negatively to it. I'm getting on in years and have watched myself and many others foolishy over-indulge expensive products and hobbies. For example, paddling is my love and I own 12 canoes and kayaks. (For ya'll in the South and Southwest, these are devices that traverse a substance you may dimly recall from last century: water. Sorry.) I assumed that this bigger-is-better philosopy was, at least to some degree, a function of the people giving it--experienced yes, but perhaps professional tractormen, or retired hobby farmers, or tractorphiliacs or tractorholics--all of whom may tend, wittingly or unwittingly, to overstate the case for the tools of their profession or their love. Indeed, I greatly admired, and still do, the few of you who bucked this overwhelming tide and advised novices not to buy more than they reasonably need. (JimBinMI is particularly effective in arguing this contrarian view, even in the face of occasional hostility, and I salute him for it.) Indeed, for tractors as for all major purchases, I continue to believe that one should carefully specify requirements and then buy a product that meets those requirements.

The problem is, I failed at specifying my requirements. This is ovbviously a chicken and egg, circular thing. If you dont know tractors and what they can do, its difficult to specify to yourself the tractor's requirements.

Other than my 2 acres of finished lawn, I have 9 more acres. Two of these acres border a creek and are wet and soft. They are full of small stumps, and rocks that have tumbled downhill from a stone wall bordering the acreage (there are no naturally inplanted rocks near the creek), and lots of old fallen trees. I want to clear up this area with my loader. When cleared, I will ultimately be able to maintain these 2 acres with a finish mower, but for a while I intend to rotary cut it. My other 7 acres is more wetland and hilly woods--stuff for future play and projects.

Two things became quickly clear about the BX loader. First, I began using it for all sorts of chores that I never anticipated and I expect that trend to continue. Second, the BX loader can't lift very much. It punks out on small stumps and roots and on rocks that I need to move. I mean, I COULD get everthing done with the BX, but it will take a long time. I only have weekends to work, the lawn is the first priority, and I want to go paddling a on my free time, too. Also, belly clearance is obviously already a problem. Even when just mowing at a height of 2.5 inches, the hitch is so low on the BX that the weight box is barely off the lawn. Finally, as I posted last week, I am having trouble finding a 42 inch cutter that meets the BX specs. The BX should be cat 1 like Roger Maris was homerun champ--with an asterisk. Things for the 3ph are hard to find and hard to fit. Glad I havent bought anything yet.

What to do? I dont want to lose the finish mowing maneuverablily and speed, but I'm otherwise unhappy. I guess I can either keep the tractor and be perpetually dissatisfied, or go back to the dealer and take a bath on a return.

I'm depressed.

 

[Will]

Just how big are these other chores that the BX can't handle? Would the BX be a great tractor for you once they were finished? There aren't too many stump pulling class tractors that I'd wan't to mow my lawn with. What if you hired someone to bring in a bulldozer and do the big jobs quickly so that you could clean up the mess at your leisure with your current tractor? 20 hours of experienced bulldozing might cost less than you'd lose in a trade in.

 

[Harv]

Glenn -

I'm sorry to hear about your plight. Your message really struck home with me 'cuz I'm right where you were a couple of weeks ago. After much research, reading and driving it still came down to making an educated guess at what I wanted/needed. I guess like so many things you just have to jump in and learn from experience. We are fortunate at least to have the benefit of the wisdom and experience of the members of this board.

The tractor I am currently negotiating on is a small L-series w/loader and box blade. The guy on the next property has a B2150 and says he's "getting by" just fine, implying that I should get something similar. The phrase "getting by" stuck with me, and after reading this board for several weeks I decided to go at least a step higher. Now you've got me wondering if I'm stepping high enough.

If it makes you feel any better (doubtful), your story will surely impact other first-time buyers and push them into erring on the "too big" side. I have yet to see a post where somebody said, "Damn! My rig has too much power!"

Now, you said you spent some time "laboriously negotiating prices" -- do you think you got a good deal? From what the members here are saying, Kubotas are quite re-sellable. Also, did you buy new? If you're patient (or if you have any patience left), the----0are excellent deals to be found on used Kubotas (I hope I'm getting one of those).

They say it's always darkest before the dawn. I expect to see a post from you soon about how you traded your BX straight across for a 68hp M-series. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[_RaT_]

Great post Will, I too know what tractors can and can't do, stump pulling power is not one of them, that requires a CAT type track machine. As far as loaders go, very few tractors can lift and attached stump outta the ground. Kubotas M series, L series etc. cannot do it. It requires some digging by the bucket and shearing of roots before this can happen. The BX probably makes a great mowing machine with a side attribute being that a loader can be attached to move material, that would be my guess. If a John Deere 700 series backhoe could be fitted with a mower, I believe that it would not notice grass 6' tall even if it ran a 12' brushhog but man would it destroy some turf. I hope this helps BX owners understand a little, Rat...

 

[Anonymous Poster]

The BX will lift just what it should, about 450lbs. Anything more than that would put a typical operator in jeopardy. If these stumps are pretty small and you are trying to get them out of the ground you'll be surprised at what the BX will do if you put a chain around the stump. Now I'm talking about SMALL stumps here 5 inches or less. (always leave your stumps about 1-2 feet high for leverage) Cut a notch hig around the stump stem so your chain doesn't slip and attach to the hitch at the lowest point on the tractor frame. It will pull much better than it can lift. If I was in the market for just one tractor my choice would be the B2410 or the JD, NH equivalent. I have a 6000lb L35 TLB and a BX and together they are great but either one by itself wouldn't solve my problems.

I know the "expensive is better" routine but in this case it is bigger is better and unfortunately that means more expensive. I've been there too, stereo salesmen trying to get you to buy stuff no human ear can tell a difference with! "Sir you've gotta get this .0000003% distortion unit, on a cretin would by the .0000004% unit!"

The best news is that you shouldn't have to "take a bath" as you put it, run some ads while it's still under warranty, there should be a buyer out there for you, or start shopping other dealers, if you're lucky you'll catch them during one of the shortage-of-new-BX's-times! Had an new 83.5 Honda once, drove it 25,000 miles in one year, had to sell it, but didn't want to, just for fun put it in the paper for what I paid plus sales tax plus insurance I paid, a Honda Dealer purchased it, no hassle! It was because the car was in short supply and I had a nice one. (Maintenance nut!)

If you don't get a bite right away I'd have someone put a webpage up for you, make the page title Kubota BX2200 For Sale, make sure that text is the first thing on the page, make sure the "meta tags" say that. And although the search engines will eventually get it, you can speed the process up by submitting it to a couple of the major sites, Altavista, Snap.Com etc. Yahoo's great but it can take 6 months to get listed. Not too mention the scads of free sites to advertise cars etc. Good Luck

 

[TomG]

I keep telling myself that I bought my 24HP tractor with the idea that I'd be happy if I could get 90% of my work done with the tractor and contract out the rest. This summer hasn't been kind to my 90% idea. Heavy equipment has been at our camp and I've been on a riding mower at home and camp. The tractor is a little big and cumbersome for mowing around landscaping and a little small for building demolitions. Still, there's been quite a bit for the tractor to do, and I find pleasure when I'm doing what the tractor does best.
I think it's important to avoid getting into the 'doing big work' thing with a tractor. Tractors last for decades, and a good question is how your work divides over the years. We're cleaning up some bush and doing some building, but that lasts only several years. The mowing, road maintenance, snow removal and material handling lasts indefinitely. My wife has wondered what the tractor will do when we're done with building for awhile. I suppose she sees the old riding mower collapsing and then me lumbering around the yard on a too big tractor. I'd end up spending more time maneuvering around trees then it would take using a riding mower, and I'd have to have a heavy trailer to get the tractor between house and camp.

Well, I got a tractor that does the middle range of what I need doing well, and so my frustrations are at the very small and the very large job ends of things. I can do most of them, but they just take more time, or they have greater risks. Anyway, it all works out I think. I'll always have mid-range types of jobs to do, and with those, I won't be spending my time nibbling away at the job with too little size or power. I think it's important to realize that people both adjust what's around them as well as adjust to what's around them. My life with a middle-sized tractor is different than it would be without a tractor, or with a big or little tractor. It just takes a little time and remembering that a tractor will work for you a long time, and what is important is what has to be done over 10 or 20 years. Who knows, you might have the right tractor now, especially if you don't want to fit paddling in-between mowing.

Talk about miss-match. My brother-in-law gave us his slightly used white-water canoe. He likes kayaking better. The canoe does what it does well, but I sure would like to go up our neighbourhood creek into some serious wilderness. However, every time I count the portages needed and think about how many log-jams there are on the lower creek, I end up just sticking the canoe in the river. Sure would be nice if a canoe that bangs its way down rapids well could be light enough to make portaging something other than an ordeal. Guess if I extended my tractor idea, I should go out and rent a lighter canoe.

 

[Bird]

How well I know the feeling, but I guess we all have to recognize the fact that there isn't just ONE tractor that's right for everything, just as there isn't one car, truck, airplane, boat, or almost anything else, that's the right size, power, price, etc. for every job. Everything's a compromise; we just try to figure out which size will do the largest number of the projects we want to do, and for many of us, how much money we can spend to do it.

And I don't like paddling. When I had a canoe, I didn't have it very long before I bought a 2hp outboard motor for it.

Bird

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Since there is a lot of discussion about the pros and cons of the BX series tractor versus the next size larger tractor going on here I thought I would post this mini review/comparison I did a couple of months ago. Here it is. I hope this helps a little.

I decided to do this review as a service to all who are struggling with the decision whether to go with a Kubota B-series tractor or the new BX-series. I owned a 1998, B1700 HSDB with a 54” mid mower, LA301 loader, loaded rear tires and a 72” Landpride rear blade for 2 years. I have 2 acres of land with maybe ½ acre in grass and a lot drive ways to clear due to having one 2 car garage and another separate single car garage at my home.

I decided to sell the B1700 and get a BX2200. Here are some of my reasons. My reason for acquiring the B1700 was that this was the smallest Kubota with a loader and power steering that could also be used as a mowing machine. My mowing job is not big but I have a hundred mile round trip daily commute and I want the mowing chores done in 20 minutes or less.

Even with the Bi-speed option, the B1700 was very difficult to keep from ripping up the lawn. My lawn extends under some treed areas and the turf is not as vigorous because of this. Additionally the contour of the lawn and placement of shrubs, trees, deck, walkways, etc. require substantial amounts of backing turning and maneuvering. With the shear weight of the tractor with loaded tires it was nearly impossible to mow without creating “tracks” in the lawn. Other areas under the trees were crushed to the point the grass would not grow. The larger loaded rear tires on the B1700 are necessary for counter balance weight for the lifting capability of the loader, but are also the main cause of tuff damage. Additionally the 54” deck on a tractor that is already 39 inches wide meant that as I tried to follow the contour of the “edged” portions of flower beds and shrubbery beds I would have to drive partially onto the mulch to make the corners and still cut grass. The mower on the B series tractor is of a design concept that requires it to ride on the lawn as opposed the BX concept which is a suspended floating concept.

The BX2200 that I purchased has he 60” deck. Now when I follow the contours of my flower beds the mower extends out an additional 6”-8” from the wheels and the mower wheels only contact the ground when the ground is undulating. The BX tractor also has a tighter mowing radius so it is easier to maneuver in tight spots. It is lower to the ground so I have additional clearance under some of my trees.

Some other differences that I like are:
-The BX is easier to mount and dismount due to its garden tractor size.
-The BX loader is the same width but the lower cutting edge extends out further creating a wider “shelf” to load things like my power washer, paint sprayer, bushes or whatever you are carting around the yard.
-The controls for the BX loader have been refined whith 2 stage hydraulics versus 1 stage hydraulics so the modulation of the loader movements are much easier to control.
-Because the BX loader is mounted to a narrower tractor and the arms are closer to the body you have a vastly improved view of the work you are doing.
-The ease of putting on and the removing the loader on the BX is much, MUCH better.
-There is no B series type clutch to deal with every time you want to change from high range to low you just stop the tractor and shift the lever.
-The BX parking brake is an easier to use and its set up does not require any hands.
-The placement of the fuel tank under the seat with a low to the ground easy to access side filling port is much better that trying to climb up over the loader and hold a full 5 gallon can over a possibly hot engine.

Despite the BX being smaller it weighs over 1300 lbs. The B1700 HSDB lists its weight in the literature as 1402 lbs. This is a testimony to sheer robustness of the design. If you stand between the 2 tractors and look at the loader and the 3 point hitch the BX is in many places using substantially thicker steel! I hope this is a sign of future things to come from Kubota. It should be noted that the “loaded tire” total weight difference is probably 500-600 lbs more for the B1700.

As far as clearing snow and using my 72” Landpride rear blade is concerned I am confident it will do the job fine. I know the loader is only rated for 480 lbs. compared to the 660 lbs. for the B series but I do not need heavy lifting for moving much, loam, wood, etc. The loss of “position control” on the 3 point I do not like either but the benefits so far out weight the negatives.

I also purchased the full Curtis Cab with soft sides, a hard rear window, heater and 3 working lights. So next winter the change over to snow removal will be a piece of cake. Drop the mower. Hook up the loader and the rear blade. Hang the soft sided cab doors on and I am ready clear snow even if has changed to rain as it often does here in southern New Hampshire. And in complete comfort after my 100 mile commute!

I hope my opinion helps those with similar home needs.
Best Regards,
Ken Johnson

 

[roysallis]

Some advise I received when I was trying to make a decision on the size tractor was that "If you have about 40 acres you will need at least a 40 hp tractor". I have 40 acres and I bought a 53 hp tractor. It has adequate power but after using it for a few months I now wish that I had a 65 hp with 4wd or had 4wd on my 53 hp. I, like many others, sometimes never seem to be satisfied with the material things I have. I keep telling myself how fortunate I am to have the tractor and equipment that I have, as well as many other material blessings, and that I should not be wanting more and more. It seems like the more we have the more we want.

 

[W5FL]

That was the same advice my dad gave me as his 40 HP JD just wasn't enough for some of the jobs he has to do regularly. I bought the 68HP M6800SD with 4WD and sure do appreciate what it can do. I would have been very dissappointed if I had bought the 2WD although my previous tractor was a 2WD and I thought I could do ok without the 4WD. Traction is the name of the game for all earth engaging tasks. Tractor's need to be sized on the work you plan to be able to do and the time you are willing to allocate to it. People badly under estimate the wide range of tasks for a loader, particularly as they get older.

Only problem I had was finding a 100 foot mower that would fit between the trees. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif Actually I have a 6 ft mower and it takes too long to mow.