Power beyond modification for ease of use

[Tractor Seabee]

Sounds like you may have a closed center BH. If there are only two hoses that is a clue. Is you BH a Massey companion unit or an after market adaption? Ask the service department this: "is the BH a open center or closed center valve?". If it is closed center then you have what you have. Simple solution; install a 3 way ball valve (from Surplus Center) to change the flow pattern when you bet off the BH. WE are hear to help not confuse. Do you have or can you get a hydraulic diagram for the tractor and the BH and post it here? That will remove the arm chair diagnosis situation.

Ron

 

[homesteader13]

Sounds like you may have a closed center BH. If there are only two hoses that is a clue. Is you BH a Massey companion unit or an after market adaption? Ask the service department this: "is the BH a open center or closed center valve?". If it is closed center then you have what you have. Simple solution; install a 3 way ball valve (from Surplus Center) to change the flow pattern when you bet off the BH. WE are hear to help not confuse. Do you have or can you get a hydraulic diagram for the tractor and the BH and post it here? That will remove the arm chair diagnosis situation.

Ron

My previous tractor was a 2015 Massey 1742 cab
this tractor is a 2019 1755 cab

I was told the same thing with both tractors.

Power beyond are Massey parts and not aftermarket. And were installed by the selling dealer at AGCO.

Massey does not make their own backhoes they are Woods backhoes, this one is a BH75

The backhoe has two lines and they plug into the pressure and return lines and I was told that to operate the loader or drive the tractor you have to disconnect them and loop the short power beyond hose into the pressure line otherwise damage would result.

It just doesn't make sense to me that it would be such a time consuming hassle to have to switch the lines every time you want to get off the back hoe and move the tractor or use the loader and go back to the hoe.

I am in Montana this week the tractor and all of my manuals are in Nebraska I don't recall seeing a hydraulic circuit diagram but I can double-check there might be.

 

[ptsg]

My previous tractor was a 2015 Massey 1742 cab
this tractor is a 2019 1755 cab

I was told the same thing with both tractors.

Power beyond are Massey parts and not aftermarket. And were installed by the selling dealer at AGCO.

Massey does not make their own backhoes they are Woods backhoes, this one is a BH75

The backhoe has two lines and they plug into the pressure and return lines and I was told that to operate the loader or drive the tractor you have to disconnect them and loop the short power beyond hose into the pressure line otherwise damage would result.

It just doesn't make sense to me that it would be such a time consuming hassle to have to switch the lines every time you want to get off the back hoe and move the tractor or use the loader and go back to the hoe.

I am in Montana this week the tractor and all of my manuals are in Nebraska I don't recall seeing a hydraulic circuit diagram but I can double-check there might be.

You don't have to. It actually makes no sense at all. I don't know why the dealer came up with it.

I've already answer this before. There is some misunderstanding between you and the dealer.

If you have the backhoe attached to the tractor, lines connected. You can use the tractor and loader just fine without messing the lines.

Once you take the backhoe off the tractor, you must close the loop again between P and PBY in the back. Then you're good to use the tractor and loader as you please.

You don't need to mess with the hoses every time you use the loader.

 

[WranglerX]

I think maybe didn't accurately clarify what I was trying to do, and why. I'll add some further info.

The bypass I'm envisioning (hydraulic rated ball valve or something similar) is for when the backhoe is still connected to the tractor.
What I want to do is essentially be able to dig with the backhoe, jump in the cab, drive the tractor and use the loader to move dirt and get back on the backhoe and dig some more holes. That's the scenario in a pretty package so to speak.

The problem is this....
The Agco tech, service manager and the afixed warning labels are telling me that when you are using the power beyond, whether for a hoe, log splitter, ect that you have to disconnect the attachment and loop it back before you can use the loader or drive the tractor (except for creeping forward IE digging a ditch.
That is a huge pain in the **s when you are doing a job that requires using the hoe and loader back and forth.

Because of this i was thinking making a circuit with tees and valves to switch back and forth without having to turn off, relieve pressure, disconnect, reconnect over and over in a day.

Had I known this was how it operated before I bought the tractor, and hoe and frame and power beyond, I would have stuck with the tractor as an ag tractor and purchased a used actual backhoe for the same money.

OR..... is there something that I am missing or have been completely missinformed on?
Any Massey owners or techs that might be able to chime in on this to?

I have searched online, but have not found an answer to what I was told either way.

I find it really odd that the procedures/operation of back hoe on your you tractor is different than 99.7% of the tractors in universe......

There is no reason in the world you should have to loop out hoe to use FEL or 3PH other than maybe a bit of flow rate restriction through the BH valve ....

Does FEL and 3PH operate now with the BH connected into system?

Dale

 

[homesteader13]

I find it really odd that the procedures/operation of back hoe on your you tractor is different than a lot of tractors in universe......

There is no reason in the world you should have to loop out hoe to use FEL or 3PH other than maybe a bit or flow rate restriction through the BH valve ....

Does FEL and 3PH operate now with the BH connected into system?

Dale

I have to agree, of all the tractors I've had over the years these were the first Masseys I've had, and definatley the newest tractors.

The loader will operate with the hoe hooked up, not sure about the 3 point, as it is locked down with the backhoe attached.

 

[homesteader13]

You don't have to. It actually makes no sense at all. I don't know why the dealer came up with it.

I've already answer this before. There is some misunderstanding between you and the dealer.

If you have the backhoe attached to the tractor, lines connected. You can use the tractor and loader just fine without messing the lines.

Once you take the backhoe off the tractor, you must close the loop again between P and PBY in the back. Then you're good to use the tractor and loader as you please.

You don't need to mess with the hoses every time you use the loader.

I am really hoping that this IS the case.
I am going to reach out to a diffrent Massey dealer Monday and see what they have to say.
If it turns out my dealer told me wrong for the last 3 years and caused me all this headache and extra work, I am going to chew their *sses out!
And then educate them.
And if so, I will consider it and early birthday AND christmas present and will be happy as can be!

 

[WranglerX]

I have to agree, of all the tractors I've had over the years these were the first Masseys I've had, and definatley the newest tractors.

The loader will operate with the hoe hooked up, not sure about the 3 point, as it is locked down with the backhoe attached.

I would think you have no issues keeping the BH in the hydraulic loop, IF FEL operates and BH operates its a pretty sure bet the 3PH will operate (once hoe is off) as per industry accepted design all the implements and control valve are in a series loop starting at hydraulic pump and ending in tank (which is usually after 3PH)....

I have spent many hours researching the hydraulics on my MF GC 1715 (non BH version) because AGCO states a "power beyond" kit is available and even give a part number in sales brochure........ NOWHERE is it (kit) to be found either through MF dealer or internet or AGCO corporate (they actually referred me back to dealer) ....IN all this I even found the art work for the 1715 hydraulic system in shop manual drawn wrong as to the sequence of the PB and P ports for BH valve in drawing......

I think this has you just chasing your tail and probably should just remove warning stickers and stay with concept to put loop hose in place if you remove BH...

Funniest thing of all is when entering AGCO part number in search for "power beyond" kit, I end up watching a youtube video of fellow adding PB to his "green tractor"....

Dale

 

[ptsg]

I am really hoping that this IS the case.
I am going to reach out to a diffrent Massey dealer Monday and see what they have to say.
If it turns out my dealer told me wrong for the last 3 years and caused me all this headache and extra work, I am going to chew their *sses out!
And then educate them.
And if so, I will consider it and early birthday AND christmas present and will be happy as can be!

That's the case for 99% of the tractors.

I can't see why your MF has to be different.

 

[K5lwq]

You don't have to. It actually makes no sense at all. I don't know why the dealer came up with it.

I've already answer this before. There is some misunderstanding between you and the dealer.

If you have the backhoe attached to the tractor, lines connected. You can use the tractor and loader just fine without messing the lines.

Once you take the backhoe off the tractor, you must close the loop again between P and PBY in the back. Then you're good to use the tractor and loader as you please.

You don't need to mess with the hoses every time you use the loader.

This is 100% correct.

 

[3Ts]

I find it really odd that the procedures/operation of back hoe on your you tractor is different than 99.7% of the tractors in universe......

There is no reason in the world you should have to loop out hoe to use FEL or 3PH other than maybe a bit of flow rate restriction through the BH valve ....

Does FEL and 3PH operate now with the BH connected into system?

Dale

On my tractor (JD 5055E) without the backhoe, there are 3 hydraulic lines. Power, return (which is also a power beyond line), & tank. The pump goes to the FEL, the output of that (return w/PB) goes back into the transmission to operate the 3PH lift. The tank line from the FEL goes back to the tank as a drain line.

When I put my BH on, it is inserted between the FEL and 3PH lift. The BH valve does not have a PB port, the output of the valve goes back to the tank as a drain line. Therefore the 3PH lift does not work when I have the BH on since there is no fluid to it. If I were to connect the output of the backhoe to the input of the 3PH lift it will move up and down, but not recommended for several reasons and no room for 3PH implements.

Now, 1 more thing. Since I am inserting the BH between the FEL and 3PH, when I take the BH out of the circuit I have to connect the FEL return line (PB line) to the input to the 3PH which is essentially bypassing the BH circuit. I do not have to do this to use the FEL or move the tractor when the BH is mounted and connected. Essentially when I remove the BH, I'm "breaking" the hydraulic line and have to reconnect the ends together.