PT1445 stalls out, won't start

[ponytug]

Just for amusement;

I have been redoing some of the cattle loafing areas which arguably ought to be done with a dozer, but I don't own one, so here I am, using the 1445 with the 4n1 to make adjustments to a slope to make a cross slope incline ramp for the cows, and the PT to come up. I do something stupid and the Deutz stalls. I flick the parking brake on instantly, and turn the key off from habit as I am working on a slope. Fortunately, it is in a reasonably safe area with only a mild slope. Drop the bucket.

Ok, no problem, give the tractor a second, double check that the parking brake on, throttle down, and turn the key, click fuel solenoid comes on, turn to start, click from the starter, but no start.

Ok, double check that PTO is off, check. Brake on, check. PTO off double check, yes. Click.

Hmm, the fan is running, perhaps it is too hot? Nope, looks good. Voltage seems a tad low, but then again the fan is running.

So, I open the hood, and mercifully the slope is such that it is both possible and safe to do. Wire check- ah hah! Disconnected wire on the engine. Rats! It turns out that it is just the oil pressure sender. No luck. Still won't start.

Discretion is the better part of valor and all that, I decided to leave it for a few hours and see if the problem was temperature related. I troop on back to the house. Besides, it is lunchtime. After a few hours it will have cooled down.

On the trek back out to where the tractor was, I thought that I would grab a voltmeter and some tools just in case. The battery voltage looks good now. No loose wires that I can find.

It is a head scratcher. I sure hope it isn't the starter motor as this is a pretty yucky spot to have do to that repair. BTDT. We have rain coming Sunday that would strand the tractor where it is for awhile, a week, perhaps three due to slippery clay soils. Not good. This really needs to get fixed.

So if I am getting a click out of the solenoid, why isn't it cranking?

Oh yeah..., I remember. I have been bitten by this problem before, and it took me awhile then to find it.

Which solenoid is clicking? Yup, just the old Ford solenoid, and sure enough the PT wire from the Ford solenoid to the Deutz solenoid has broken again under the heat shrink tubing so that you can't see that it is broken. Once I pull on the wire, it comes apart, and the wire end is blackened. Yay!

So, I jam the frayed wire end against the solenoid terminal with one hand and turn the key with the other, and presto! The engine starts sweet as a nut. With a running engine, I can head back to the shop. The last time this happened, I just reterminated the original PT wire, one of those wires in Tygon tubing deals. I did tie up with a zip tie to hold it down. This time, I made up a new wire using nice marine grade wire with lots of strands, pretinned, crimped new connectors, added heat shrink to keep things dry, slipped everything in some split wire loom, and zip tied it down in two places.

This fix will probably last long enough for me not to think of it for a few hours, again. I should have known from the first click, but I was thinking that the starter had overheated for some reason. It was our first warm day in months, so it was on my mind.

All the best,

Peter

Looks good, right?


Not so much when it is gently pulled apart. No corrosion, just arcing damage.



New version. The old wire was anchored near the red tie wrap.

 

[m5040]

I put an exhaust elbow on my 1430's hood (that lines up with the muffler outlet) to direct exhaust to the rear. I mention this because at certain RPM ranges, it will vibrate up and down about an inch. If I let it vibrate like that I am sure it would crack and break off. This just makes it evident that certain RPMs will have a lot of shaking which will break things and chafe hoses and wires. You might want to look for this and raise or lower the engine RPMs a bit. Just a suggestion, I am sure the 2 cyl is more prone to this then your 3 cyl.
The attached pic is the best I had in my computer, if you want to see the 3" exhaust elbow. PS-I do not have a 5" exhaust stack in my pickup truck's bed.

 

[ponytug]

@m5040 I haven't seen that much engine vibration on my 1445, but I can't say that I routinely watch the engine while working. I had the old wire tied down at the low point to the other solenoid cables which lasted 12 years, six times longer than the factory version that was hanging freely.

I would love to see a good picture of your exhaust modification sometime.

All the best,

Peter

 

[ponytug]

Added photos.

 

[MossRoad]

Sneaky problems. Not my favorite.

 

[BigDaddyEureka]

Glad it turned out to be something that you had prior experience with!

Looking at the broken wire, any chance of finding some solid core wire that gauge? It might have slightly better fatigue life down the line. It will be harder to bend like you've got it in the loop there, but once in place it may hold up a bit longer.

Also, if you can wrap that area in aluminum foil, shiny side out, that may keep it from getting so hot or heat cycling quite so much too.

 

[ponytug]

Thanks @BigDaddyEureka! I will keep an eye things going forward.

Fatigue in wires works the other way around. Finely stranded wire is less susceptible to work hardening than solid wire. It has mostly to do with the bend radius relative to the wire (strand) diameter, so thin strands have the bend spread over many diameters, rather than only a few diameters in one large solid wire. That's why cords for lights and power tools are all finely stranded wire, not solid. The other bits of it are whether the copper was annealed (usually but not always like motor and solenoid wires often aren't) and the purity of the copper, as impurities lower the ductility. I suspect that's why PowerTrac uses elevator cord (very fine stranded wire) to run the power and control wires from the dash through the tunnel.

Thanks for the foil tip. I will keep it in mind and I may try foil on the wire loom if it shows signs of melting, but there is a Deutz wire loom visible in the left corner of the last photo that hasn't melted in fifteen years. These air-cooled (ok, oil-cooled) diesels run at a pretty low temperature the grand scheme of things. I have wire loom above the exhaust that hasn't shown any signs of heat damage so far at a little over one year. (For the intake preheaters. Thanks again @SpringHollow!)

All the best,

Peter

 

[SpringHollow]

I have had the same problem several times and often the connection issue is intermittent. Things being how they are, I try to get away with it until I have time to replace it. I usually grab a car starter and hit the starter with that to get going and back to the shop. Each time I repair it, I think "this time it will last much longer".

Ken