Question on 422 power

[KMA]

Hello everyone.

I'm brand new to the site, and have been browsing the forums for a few weeks before joining. I've been looking at the Power Trac, and this forum has been a huge asset (thank you TBN members!). We're close to the completion of a new up-state NY home on just under 6 acres. The entire property has a bit of a slope to it, but nothing major. In the back, there is an small area with about a 25 degree incline. I still need to put in a lawn along with some relatively small scale escavation and installation of french drains, stone driveway maintenance, etc...

Although I'd prefer the 425, I've been looking at the 422 since it, along with the attachments I'll "need", is pushing the upper bounds of my allowable budget. (actually, I don't really have a budget, and will need to sell my motorcycle and ztr mower. ) I will initially be getting the LM bucket and installing a tooth bar, along with forks and the mini-hoe (later adding a thumb like the user's on this forum have described). I plan to purchase soon since I need to take care of some springs and move some dirt before Winter. I already have a quote from PT on shipping. In the Spring, I may also pick up the 60" finish cut mower, but I need to ask some questions about it too... but that will be in another thread.

My current mower is a 22HP ztr with a 50" deck. I notice it struggles a bit as I mowed up the 15-20 degree inclines of my previous home. It weighs roughly half that of the 422. Here's my question: Is the power of the 422 based on the engine's horsepower, the use of 4 (vs 2) hydro motors at the wheels, or the types of pumps used, or <insert another reason here>? If the 422 has about the same engine power as my mower, how is it able to pull its own weight and do some fairly heavy duty work?

Thanks for you time,
Kevin

 

[MossRoad]

The model number is based on engine HP. PT422 = 22HP. PT425 = 25HP, etc...

I have a PT425 with a 25HP Kohler (2001 model year). I believe it has the same wheel motors as the current PT422, not the stronger wheel motors that the current PT425 has. I have some hills on my property, too. I bought the PT425 over the PT422 because I wanted as much HP as possible to swing the 60" mower and I am a big proponent of getting as much HP in a frame size as is available... never regretted that decision.

I can tell you from experience, the PT425 that I have operating a 60" finish mower will not do so well going up a steep hill. It will lose traction to the point that the wheels spin. I then have to lift the mower deck an inch or two. That gets the weight of the mower deck off of its own wheels and onto the front wheels of the tractor. Then I can go a bit steeper, before I lose wheel power to go up the hill.

So, I usually end up mowing UP on less steep slopes and mowing DOWN on the steep runs. It works out O.K. with a little planning.

You also have to remember that the engines on these units are rated for degree slope due to the oiling/lubrication systems in them. If you get them too far off center, the oil pickup will starve and you could cause engine damage.

If your 22HP ZTR struggles with a 50" deck, my guess is a PT422 with a 60" deck will do worse. Remember, ZTRs are engineered lawn mowing machines. That is what they are made to do and it is the only thing they can do well. PTs are made to do lots of things, so there are going to be trade offs when compared to dedicated machines.

As to the weight issue, it weighs 2X your ZTR. Your ZTR is probably faster than the PT, but I bet your ZTR will lose traction up hill before the PT does, but the PT may not have enough HP to power the mower while climbing that hill.

Have you test driven a PT anywhere? I highly recommend it before purchasing. Try to get it in the same conditions as your land and see if you can get a seat of the pants feeling for the differences.

 

[MuncyBob]

MR hit the nail on the head when he said "takes a little planning". I have over 3 acres to mow on a regular basis..a few steep areas involved. I will mow the steep areas first while the hydro fluid is still cool and I get better traction/power. If I wait until the fluids are hot and a bit thinner then I try to mow downhill on the steep areas. Seems to work out OK and it's a small price to pay for all the other things my PT does for me!

 

[MossRoad]

it's a small price to pay for all the other things my PT does for me!

That is my feeling as well. The PT does many things very well. It is not the best mower, the best front end loader, the best backhoe machine, the best anything, except for one thing... it is the best multi-tool platform for the price.

You could spend tens of thousands of dollars and get a dedicated mowing machine, a dedicated FEL machine, a dedicated backhoe machine, etc... but that is not practical for "normal average folk" as I like to categorize myself. I can't afford the best dedicated machine for every task. The PT is a multi-tool platform. It provides the owner with a single power plant to maintain and store. The attachments are usually sturdy and do a very good job at their task. Maybe not THE best job, but a pretty darn good job. And what makes the system complete is the ability to change those attachments in 15 seconds without getting off the tractor(30-45 seconds for powered attachements). That makes you super productive with your limited time.

Here's an example:

A couple weekends ago, I took the PT, the brush hog, the light material bucket and my forks out to our property with my in-laws and their trusty chainsaw. A few months earlier, my daughter and I used the PT to haul about a hundred 30-50 foot trees out of the woods and stack them in two long piles. My in-laws heat with wood. These are all 4-10 inch trees that require no splitting. Perfect for them. I lifted a bunch of trees about 3 feet off the ground with the forks and sawed off about 30-40 pieces of wood at a time. Then I'd drop the forks, put on the bucket, we'd toss in the wood and I'd drive it up to the truck and dump it. Come back, put on the forks and repeat.

Every so often my in-laws need a break. So while they were resting, I'd pop on the brush hog and go off and mow our trails for 20 minutes. I also mowed our driveway and a 1/4 acre patch of grass. So, in about three hours time, I managed to cut a pickup load of firewood, switch from forks to bucket and back about 10 times, attach and detach the brush hog 4 times, mow about a mile and a half of trails 7' wide and stop for 20 minutes to watch some of the several thousand motor cycles that drove by our place on the MDA ride! I also managed a couple water/snack breaks in there for myself.

I'm pretty sure you could not do that with any other machine on the market anywhere near the price I paid for the PT five years ago, as I got the tractor, 48" brush hog, 60" finish mower, light material bucket, small rock bucket with teeth, 60" snow plow, pallet forks, ramps to load it into my pickup truck all delivered to Indiana for $12,500.00. I just couldn't see buying anything else for my needs.

I was so impressed with the ability to changed implements that I bought a car hauler trailer so that I can take all of my implements with me whenever I go to a job. That way I have all the tools at my disposal at all times. I don't have to do any planning, as I have everything there. School yard maintenance comes to mind.

They asked me to help spread pea gravel for a playground with my FEL. Well, I also popped out some old concrete footings for long gone swingsets with the forks and excavated a hole for a jungle gym that they weren't planning on doing with the small tooth bucket, "Since Mr. MossRoad is already here with his tools."

Have I mentioned I really like this machine?

 

[MuncyBob]

It always amazes me the price tags on riding lawn mowers that are lined up out front of our local Lowes store. $2500+ for just a "lawn mower"....come on!! I bought the PT for just what MR said, knowing it may not be the "best" for some things but a very good overall tool. I really didn't want nor do I have the storage space for several dedicated tractors so the PT is ideal...and I am frequenlty reminding the Mrs. it's the best $$ we have spent in some time! Now if I can just get her out of calling the PT the "little tractor"!!!


I was cutting our grass last night and I thought of this thread when on the steeper parts of our "yard"....I can handle just about anywhere when cutting(and the above mentioned "planning") and if you cut anything steeper than some of my hills you need a tractor specially made for those grades! The only real problem I have is when the grass gets wet and I lose traction with the mower deck down.

 

[BobRip]

Hello everyone.
My current mower is a 22HP ztr with a 50" deck. I notice it struggles a bit as I mowed up the 15-20 degree inclines of my previous home. It weighs roughly half that of the 422. Here's my question: Is the power of the 422 based on the engine's horsepower, the use of 4 (vs 2) hydro motors at the wheels, or the types of pumps used, or <insert another reason here>? If the 422 has about the same engine power as my mower, how is it able to pull its own weight and do some fairly heavy duty work?

Thanks for you time,
Kevin

Kevin. what kind of slope do you have on your present property? I use my 422 on a 25 degree slope, but I have to get a running start and the slope is only about 10 feet long. I find that on steep slopes of about 20 degrees if I wiggle the PT (turn left and right over and over) this helps me climb. If you have a lot of slope, I highly recommend the 425, if not the 422 does very well.

 

[MuncyBob]

I had to finish up some grass cutting last night and I went straight to the steepest slope I have right after starting the 422, this is a hill that I normally don't get to until I'm just about done cutting which is around 1 1/4 hours.. To my surprise it went up & down 4 times with no problem, not sure on the grade but it's very steep. Of course after the fluids have circulated enough to lose some viscosity(thin out,etc) I would not be able to do this.

 

[KMA]

Wow! Thanks for all of the input! I think I had already made up my mind, but the more feedback the better, if for nothing else to make me feel better about my decision.

I like Farmall140's suggestion about mowing the steeper section first. That makes sense to me. MR does a great job of illustrating the virtues of the machine. I don't believe I have any expectations that are too high, particularly after reading this forum. I think it will end up being exactly what I need; a very versatile and useful "tool" to use around my property. (did I mention I might have some fun using it too? )

Kevin. what kind of slope do you have on your present property? I use my 422 on a 25 degree slope, but I have to get a running start and the slope is only about 10 feet long. I find that on steep slopes of about 20 degrees if I wiggle the PT (turn left and right over and over) this helps me climb. If you have a lot of slope, I highly recommend the 425, if not the 422 does very well.

Bob, the section I'm thinking of is about 25-30 degrees, but it is relatively small (~300 sq. ft.). In all honestly, if the 422 struggles mowing it, I could pay someone to come in and mow it for ten years with the money I'd save on going with the 425... I'm not trying to suggest the 425 isn't worth the money, because I think it is... I'm just having a hard enough time affording the 422 right now. As it is, I'll need to wait until next spring to purchase the 60" mower. I'm starting off with the LM bucket and mini-hoe since I have several jobs that must be finished before winter.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

 

[BobRip]

I think on 300 square feet you can use a weed eater. 25 to 30 degrees is a lot for even the 425. What are the slopes of the other areas of your yard? Are they below 15 degrees?

 

[KMA]

Right, the rest of the yard varies from 0-10 degrees or so. How would the 422 handle just driving up a 25-30 degree slope without mowing?

Thanks.