Right to repair laws coming?

ericm979

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Manufacturers don't need to give away their software to make repairs possible. They just need to provide user-accessible diagnostics and configuration. One of the good things about EPA emissions regs is that they mandated the OBD and OBD2 interfaces and standardized codes. OBD2 is not as standardized and open as I'd like, but it shows the way they could go.
 

Gator6x4

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Auto manufacturers tried the same thing years ago. They got the Magneson Moss act for their troubles.

We got the cost of factory manuals run up out of site but at least we could buy them if we wanted.

As much as we all hate government intervention it's stuff like this that makes it necessary.
It is call good ole greed. I used to buy two boxes of the XL Hardy latex gloves at Harbor Freight for Fourteen dollars and change. COVID-19 spread around the World. Purchased two boxes yesterday for $42.18.
 

rademamj1

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I sort of find it hilarious, that many of those who complained about JD and their right to repair policy, did so because they were or are trying to circumnavigate the TIER-4 emissions equipment on the tractor. They have the skills and knowledge to get around the TIER-4 , but JD voids warranty by doing so. Hopefully, Biden's executive order is not misconstrued.
 

Diggin It

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We don't need access to the "software". We just need definitions of error codes.
Individual owners, maybe not. Fleet owners with their own repair facilities and independent shops should however. Competition is good for most people and would allow individual owners to use small businesses more local to them than factory dealers might be.
I don’t think people want to purchase the manuals, or tools to make repairs.

They want free manuals, free parts, free tools and a free mechanic with the expertise and knowledge to make the repairs while they enjoy their favorite refreshment.

I have a friend that owns a large automotive repair facility. He advised me he had over $100,000 dollars invested in diagnostic equipment and tools. He advised he thinks something is wrong if he does not get cussed out at least once a week for not doing a free diagnostic check, tell and show the person the part that is causing the problem and give the person the name and part number of the part.
Service and parts manuals should be included with the machine.

What I usually find is that most shops will run the diagnostics and inform the owner what needs to be done, what parts might be needed and so on and give an estimate of costs. If you chosoe not to have the work done, they'll charge an hour labor for the testing, otherwise the test time is rolled into the repair.
 

RickB

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Just a Scag
Manufacturers don't need to give away their software to make repairs possible. They just need to provide user-accessible diagnostics and configuration. One of the good things about EPA emissions regs is that they mandated the OBD and OBD2 interfaces and standardized codes. OBD2 is not as standardized and open as I'd like, but it shows the way they could go.
None of which is mandated for off-road equipment.
 

Gator6x4

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Individual owners, maybe not. Fleet owners with their own repair facilities and independent shops should however. Competition is good for most people and would allow individual owners to use small businesses more local to them than factory dealers might be.

Service and parts manuals should be included with the machine.

What I usually find is that most shops will run the diagnostics and inform the owner what needs to be done, what parts might be needed and so on and give an estimate of costs. If you chosoe not to have the work done, they'll charge an hour labor for the testing, otherwise the test time is rolled into the repair.
They are if the person either negotiate free manuals in the sale or purchase a service manual or parts manual at time of initial purchase or later.

Someone had to devote a lot of time and effort in assembling a parts manual or a detailed service manual. Are they supposed to do this and then publish the service or parts manual and not be paid?

The Dealer where we purchase the equipment does not publish the manuals. John Deere does for example. The dealer has to purchase from JD to give to you. Is he supposed to do this out of his pocket, or increase the cost of the tractors by what the manual cost?

The only thing in life that is free is Social Disease and COVID-19 and no one wants either.
 

Oaktree

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I sort of find it hilarious, that many of those who complained about JD and their right to repair policy, did so because they were or are trying to circumnavigate the TIER-4 emissions equipment on the tractor. They have the skills and knowledge to get around the TIER-4 , but JD voids warranty by doing so. Hopefully, Biden's executive order is not misconstrued.
We're talking apples and oranges here. JD claims that it they allow consumers access to fault codes somehow those same customers will hack the code and bypass emissions controls, diddle with engine timing and generally create havoc. I call BS on that.
I'd say 99% of owners/independent shops just want to be able to do routine tasks...read error codes, reset whatever needs to be reset when a component is changed, etc. There should be no need to reset anything if all you do is change a filter, hose or something basic like that. We're not seeing significant numbers of on-road vehicle owners doing that simply by buying an OBD scanner at their local autoparts store.
Service and parts manuals should be included with the machine.
These items should be made available, but I don't see why there should be any obligation on the part of the manufacturer to supply them for free. I bet even the dealerships have to pay for that.
That documentation is expensive to produce, and a lot of customers have no intention of doing other than routine maintenance on their machines. There's no free lunch, the cost of the manuals is just going to be absorbed into the selling price...you pay whether you want/need it or not.
 

BravoXray

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AND, there is the John Deere point of view,,
I think JD invested a fortune developing the software, and now, JD is trying to figure out a fair way to market that software..

JD is like any other software company,, if JD creates software, JD, or any other software developer should not be required to "give away" access to the software.
AND, they have made an even larger fortune keeping it locked up. Deere won't do anything to make servicing easier unless they are forced to do so.

No one is talking about giving the systems software away, only about allowing shop and owners access to diagnostic software and service manuals to be able to diagnose what the problem is without waiting until a JD dealer can get to it.
 

ning

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Northern California
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Branson 3520h
Right to repair isn't just about DIY vs go to the dealer - it also affects third party repairs.

I can do a basic diagnosis of my OBD-equipped car at home but as others noted, there are expensive tools that I don't have. However, my excellent repair shop in town does, and they're not affiliated with the practically fraudulent nearby dealer nor the manufacturer, and are capable of any fix needed.
 
 
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