Right to repair - we WIN!!

mo1

Gold Member
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
379
Location
SW Missouri
Tractor
JD 5075E
I believe that this is the premise of the "Right to Repair" movement. There is no valid reason for the software to be that expensive other than to prevent competition in servicing the tractors or to gouge the consumer for minor repairs that they could easily do themselves. Both are unethical and skirt on being illegal. They could open up the diagnostics portion of the code but block users from tampering with the emissions related settings. Not saying I agree with this, just stating that it would be possible. I had heard that there is someone in CZ that can make your 45 HP Kioti a 55 HP using standard settings (the 45, 50 and 55 engines are identical, it is all software), all the way up to 75 HP. I personally would not feel comfortable sending my ECU to some Czech hacker, even after I am out of warranty. But if I had a buddy that has a DK5510 and a way to download the bits into my DK4510? But that would be dishonest, right? That would be the justification they would use to keep it locked down.

About the only way that there would be a case against the manufacturer for improper pricing would be if they charged dealers some small sum like $100/year for software but charged somebody $10,000/year that they didn't want to sell to but were forced to sell to by regulation. However, it is reported that at least some OEMs charge their own dealers a very high price for these tools and software, so there would be no case against the manufacturer if they simply now will sell to anybody else at that same high price. The government generally cannot dictate the price a that a company can charge a third party for their goods or services. They can only dictate prices if they themselves are the customer. I will tell you it is miserable if you are on the receiving end of that "deal," particularly if the government is by far the biggest customer in the field and it is not only not politically advantageous to pay you, it is actually politically advantageous to NOT pay you.

And just to make sure everybody doesn't read me wrong, I am not an apologist for these large companies and do not agree with their tactics of trying to make everything unnecessarily difficult to repair. I am saying that I don't think that this policy will actually accomplish what most here appear to think it will.
 
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sunandsand

Silver Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
Messages
167
Tractor
Kubota B2601
France instituted a "repairability index" which requires manufacturers of just about everything sold there to publish information on how repairable their product is, parts availability, is it glued together, service information, and so on. It is like the MPG sticker we require on new cars.

Survey showed that over 80% of consumers would simply not buy unrepairable products. Further, given a choice between two otherwise identical products, they would buy the repairable product just about every time.


The FTC's Right to Repair decision opens this option to USA consumers, and this option often did not previously exist for us due to captive service, we-won't-sell-parts-to-you, encrypted and unavailable diagnostic software, etc.

Now - given a choice between Brand A's product which you can't fix and a very similar product from Brand B which you CAN fix, what's your choice? You don't HAVE to fix it yourself, but now we will have that option. We did not have that option before the FTC ruling.

Manufacturers will take a good look at these statistics and these strong consumer preferences, and realize that there is a significant marketing advantage in giving customers what they want (duh). The manufacturers who refuse to do this will lose most of their market share and (if they survive) will quickly fall into line.

If all the widget manufacturers get together and decide "we ain't gonna do it", they will be looking at a violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust act and their attorneys will get rich fighting it - and lose anyway.

Expecting this to happen immediately isn't realistic, but it WILL happen.

(After the election, at the press conference, someone grumpily asked what Biden was going to do about some obscure issue which was mostly of concern to the questioner. Pskai's answer was "Hey, he's only been president for seven hours!" This FTC ruling is only a couple of days old. Give it a little time.)

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida
 

Tulkas

New member
Joined
Aug 18, 2012
Messages
9
Location
Wa
Tractor
None
I think it will be better than folks are afraid of. The government has been getting hammered on right to repair in a lot of military contracts. So they are in the same boat we are.
 

dh206

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2020
Messages
31
Location
Pennsylvania
Tractor
Kubota BX2350, John Deere 322
There must be a big loophole. Nothing governmental goes our way anymore.
This is not unprecedented. The same thing used to happen with cars and catalytic converters years ago. They were all proprietary and you had to go to the dealership to get the thing replaced for an arm and a leg. When right-to-repair passed on cars, all of the proprietary stuff had to be released, including engine diagnostic codes, catalytic, etc. had to be shared with independent operations like garages. This actually, when analyzed economically (after-the-fact data-based), was good for everybody. It increased sales of cars that were previously locked down, boosted garages, and was just all-around a good thing, for consumers, for everybody.

The tractor and iPhone additions are not new, they are just new applications of the same ideas and laws. The law is the same, the application is extended. It's a good thing!
 

Jofang

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
42
Location
Valojoulx, France
Tractor
Kubota BX2350, Kubota mower Z122, Fleming topper mower, flail mower, rotavator, wood chipper, grader box, Kubota auger, 20 ton splitter
Available, but at what price???
 

jacspath

Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
38
Location
Ulster Co. NY
Tractor
Kubota L185DT
I wonder what the story is for those who have been prosecuted/sued for 'violating' the 'old rules'. They probably have a bit of an uphill to get restitution.
 

Fixastuff

Gold Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2021
Messages
455
Tractor
Massey
Available, but at what price???
When i worked on cars for a living I paid 6k for a used MODUS scanner and it paid itself back many times over. It might be expensive for home mechanics but at least it will open up the option for taking your John Deere to a independent shop. They usually charge less per hr and won't try to make the bill so large as to encourage you to just buy a new machines instead of fixing the old.(a ton of dealers do this)

Good tools are NOT inexpensive and a diagnostic scanner is no different. Sounds like alot of people want right to repair and free/cheap diagnostic equipment and manuals.

I'm guessing that eventually someone will come up with a AllData type site but for tractors.
 
  
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sunandsand

Silver Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
Messages
167
Tractor
Kubota B2601
Here's the link to the Wired article regarding repairability scores. This is for France, but it looks like it will spread to the rest of the EU.


Remember that the EU is a BIG market, over 500 million people, so this rule is going to have major consequences.


As consumers, we've been conditioned to accept all kinds of restrictions on the products we purchase, from involved, incoherent (but binding) software agreements, to captive service on electronics and vehicles, to lousy deals from banks (Wells Fargo got slammed for this), to contracts of adhesion from cell phone and cable companies and so on.

What these vendors can't seem to get through their heads is that WE keep THEM in business by purchasing their products and services.

If we are able to find vendors who offer us even slightly less sucky (technical term) products and services we will gladly jump ship from our present suppliers and buy from someone who treats us better, or even somewhat less badly. The Right to Repair ruling is a big step in that direction.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida
 
 
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