Right to repair - we WIN!!

   / Right to repair - we WIN!! #91  
The Article means almost nothing, the Caveat is in the first paragraph on the second page and in the footnotes to that paragraph. The FTC has done almost nothing for over a decade with the laws already in place, the change trumpeted here is that the FTC will now do more. There are no new laws and it is not quantified how hard the FTC will go.
 
   / Right to repair - we WIN!! #92  
Available... For a big price. Will the definition of their private Codes be available? Now, what will they make custom to force you to a dealer? How many 'dealer only' tools will need to be bought to work on YOUR vehicle? This is done all the time with cars... They make parts impossible to get at with standard garage tools, they patent the custom tool for a few years then and only then can tool manufacturers copy them. Too bad we all can't stop buying vehicles 100% for a full year to wake these folks up
 
   / Right to repair - we WIN!! #93  
And you get what you pay for!
$25 buts you a code, ling way from figuring out the true problem. $500 gets you closer, but still a good ways from the true diagnostic equipment that allows you to actually do something.
Also note that all machines sold in reason years by different brands will be like the obd-I days, as will those sold for a while still.
While it eventually be a win, it is nit the win so many want to claim.
Yes, all within control of the consumer to decide what they want. If my tractor is "dead", a code that I can look up on my smart phone while out in the woods or field may be enough for me to drive my tractor back rather than walking back. I would probably be the guy that would opt for a $500 solution but I would not likely have my laptop while brush hogging.
 
   / Right to repair - we WIN!! #94  
This should extend well beyond tractors. It apply to EV's , cell phones etc etc I hope.
 
   / Right to repair - we WIN!!
  • Thread Starter
#95  
"This should extend well beyond tractors. It apply to EV's , cell phones etc etc I hope."


Actually, it originated to address cell phones, laptops and other electronic devices that are now essentially unrepairable and get thrown out when they fail. I read that here in the US, 416,000 cell phones are discarded every day. That's just cell phones, it doesn't include the mountains of dead TVs, appliances with fancy PC board modules which are NLA a week after the model is superseded. We have a huge e-waste problem, and if we were able to fix stuff instead of only being able to throw it out (and buy a new one), we'd make an appreciable dent in that.

Most of the e-waste gets shipped off to third world countries to be partially recycled. I saw a photo of a guy in rural China who was melting the solder off old PC boards and pouring it into molds to be reclaimed. He was wearing SANDALS. The ability to fix our own stuff instead of discarding it has beneficial "downstream" effects beyond just our own wallets.


The EU decided to extend their repairability regulations to appliances (example - refrigerators seven years but the door gaskets ten years), and also to automobiles and other vehicles. If you sell anything in the EU, you are going to need to support it, make parts and service information available, and so on.


What has happened here is that these FTC requirements will also cover our tractors, as well as our cell phones, laptops, computers, TVs, appliances and more. Our tractors are a side benefit (which we can gladly embrace).


Note that nobody HAS to fix their own stuff if they don't want to, but this makes it possible for us to do it if we so desire. Personally, I so desire. I just am not in the mood to help contribute to buying a bigger yacht for the CEOs of the companies whose products I bought. (Ingrates never even send me a holiday card, let alone offer me a ride on the yacht I helped buy for them . . . but that's fine, I get seasick anyway.)


Best Regards,

Mike/Florida
 
   / Right to repair - we WIN!! #96  
While it didn't spit out a part number, I had a free program for my Audi that ran on my laptop that was *very* detailed in how it diagnosed, fuel maps and timing, shift points, etc, right down to the voltage to, and resistance of, the little flapper motors in the AC ducts. The full diagnostics was a thing to behold, with lights flashing, engine revving, flappers flapping, windows going up and down...
VAG-COM/VCDS cannot be so inclusive as to know the part number of a failed part. In fact the program does not know that a part has failed. It only knows that a part is not meeting parameters as reported by the control module. The reasons the parameters may not be met are many and are beyond the testing ability of the modules in the vehicle. The module is not designed to ascertain whether or not the part itself has failed.
Too many think the control modules know all. They don't.

As I suggested in an earlier post, tractor owners should push for fault codes to be displayed on the instrument cluster and for a reference document/app to be supplied to help resolve a problem literally "in the field."

Having to buy a diagnostic tool for a one control module machine - the engine - seems onerous to me. Better to have the fault codes in a display on the instrument cluster so a repair can be initiated.

For the more complicated Ag machines with lots of computer control, perhaps a full diagnostic tool will be needed.

Anyone remember blink codes in the early days of auto diagnostics? Simple was good... but it was not very comprehensive. I'm not suggesting the OEMs go to blink codes!

I am suggesting that the OEMs build a means for users to see and begin a process of troubleshooting from the seat of the machine. I really doubt that adds a huge amount of cost. They could supply a module in the machine that communicates to all other modules and queries them for the faults they see. It then sends those messages to the instrument cluster on command. The user of the tractor now has the information they need to decide, can I fix this or do I need the dealer tech. The instrument cluster would have an intelligent display section. Costs would be for the diagnostic module and the enhanced instrument cluster. On a $70k tractor - likely a $2-3k price increase.. not very hugely significant. On a $20k tractor, this scheme would be significant in cost but would also likely be overkill and not necessary. Design trade-offs would be required.

Let's consider an aftermarket solution. It is not going to be easy. With no standards, who is going to be willing to reverse engineer all the manufacturer's control and communication schemes to make a tool? And if you can't focus on all OEMs then how will the research and development costs be spread over a large enough pool to make a tool inexpensive - under $500? Some have asked us to consider this and taking on this endeavor. We're thinking about it but as yet do not see how we recoup our investment.

As one who is in that business for automotive and works for the company that makes an aftermarket VAG tool, I can state that the information needed is not just sitting there for one to draw upon. It has to be mined - literally byte by byte. We have full time staff whose sole purpose is to research what VAG is doing in the controls of their cars. Likewise, to make an aftermarket Tractor-COM, one would have to learn all the communications methods of each OEM. The FTC will not force them to share that information freely. It would take away their competitive edge.

The Right to Repair action is a good start. Let's see where it leads.
 
   / Right to repair - we WIN!! #97  
@bearthebruce:

Some tractors already do display at least some electronic error codes on the instrument cluster display. However, the information for what to do with them besides "tell them to your dealer" is not provided in the owner's manual. Perhaps they are in the service manuals, I don't know as I do not own those manuals, although for about $450 I could have bought them.
 
   / Right to repair - we WIN!! #99  
The biggest thing that bugs me about cell phones and some similar devices is the 'non-replaceable battery. I have no idea what the reasoning was there. Some can still be replaced, but with a lot more work and risk of damage.
 
   / Right to repair - we WIN!! #100  
The reasoning is that you will need to purchase another phone when the battery gets weak. A continuing source of incoming money.
 
 
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