Runs nice and dies in 20 min UPDATE!!

   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min UPDATE!! #1  

Danica

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Dec 22, 2010
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178
Location
Ulster County, NY
Tractor
CNH TC40DA & Ford 1920
IMG_0404.JPG



Update-hired a young freelance diesel mechanic who spent 5 hours going over everything and even he’s not positive it is 100% solved but the root cause appears to be air leaking into the fuel system. He put a new brass flat sealing washer on bleed screw and tight ended all the other connections (including the line between tank and sediment bowl which had to be accessed by taking off instrument panel in cab). I’m not 100% sure we have found ALL sources of air infiltration but now it can run at 2,000rpm indefinitely. Hopefully it will act ok under load when a cut the fields as soon as weather turns sunny.




Yes, same topic as before regarding a 1920 that runs 20 min then dies. Based on feedback in previous thread I have:

* Siphoned out old diesel and added 5 gal fresh
* removed and shot 30psi air thru every hose shown on top of fuel filter housing (for the one to tank I just shot in air to potentially dislodge any crud on the internal filter and the other two I completely removed to ensure they were totally clear)
* new fuel solenoid
* replaced fuel filter, bowl, and large o-ring
* checked tank cap (on/off)
* exhaust color perfect
* screamed at it (as effective as previously noted tricks)
* monitored voltage (14.64) at battery
* checked outgoing fuel stream from sediment bowl while it was dying and it was strong
* changed air filter
* cleaned radiator and screen
* changed fuel return lines
* changed the braided fuel lines

When it died just now I quickly unhooked the fuel line to the filter and it was gushing out. So, this suggests it can’t be fuel starvation or I’d have just a trickle coming down from tank. Same on the outgoing post-filtration stream.

If it isn’t a fuel starvation/quality issue could it be an air issue? I’ve ordered a new air filter due next week and the current one is 6 years old and seen 300 hours of work.

I haven’t bled the injectors but the fact it runs 20 min beautifully and then slowly dies doesn’t seem consistent with that.

Presence of a Woods FEL makes access really difficult.

The thing that is so boggling is that in a few hours it will start right up and run beautifully until the repeats itself. This is my last shot if the air filter doesn’t solve it (I doubt it will) I will have to get a diesel mechanic to look at it and in this case do dealers come and pick up a tractor or just try to fix it ‘in situ’ with equipment they would have in a repair truck. I’ve done everything on both my tractors for 20 years so this will be a first…

Thank you in advance. Pics attached just for curiosity sake and may show in “off” position inadvertently.

Finally, if the tank were clogged wouldn’t the engine run on the fuel in the sediment bowl until it dried up and then abruptly die?

Danica
 
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   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min UPDATE!! #2  

LouNY

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Branson 8050, IH 574, Oliver 1550 Diesel Utility (traded in on Branson)
Are you running with the fuel petcock on the filter in the position shown in the picture?
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min UPDATE!! #3  

oldnslo

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Branson 2400H, JD X540
If Lou’s question doesn’t solve the problem.
Another off the wall possibility is if you have electric fuel shut off on the fuel pump. Possible the coil is getting hot and then to weak to keep open. Coil cools off and cycle repeats. That would shut off engine similar to turning the key.
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min UPDATE!!
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Danica

Danica

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Ulster County, NY
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CNH TC40DA & Ford 1920
Are you running with the fuel petcock on the filter in the position shown in the picture?

No, if the photo shows it off it was just because I had just blown air up fuel line. My mistake!
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min UPDATE!!
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Danica

Danica

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Ulster County, NY
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CNH TC40DA & Ford 1920
If Lou’s question doesn’t solve the problem.
Another off the wall possibility is if you have electric fuel shut off on the fuel pump. Possible the coil is getting hot and then to weak to keep open. Coil cools off and cycle repeats. That would shut off engine similar to turning the key.

Oh right, I put in a new solenoid and was sure that would fix it. Gotta edit orig post.
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min UPDATE!!
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Danica

Danica

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Ulster County, NY
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CNH TC40DA & Ford 1920
No, if the photo shows it off it was just because I had just blown air up fuel line. My mistake!

I edited orig post per your observation (thanks)
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min UPDATE!!
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Danica

Danica

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Messages
178
Location
Ulster County, NY
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CNH TC40DA & Ford 1920
If Lou’s question doesn’t solve the problem.
Another off the wall possibility is if you have electric fuel shut off on the fuel pump. Possible the coil is getting hot and then to weak to keep open. Coil cools off and cycle repeats. That would shut off engine similar to turning the key.

Right, well I did replace solenoid and tested to see it retract with leads to battery just in case. But your point re temp makes a lot of sense because when the temp gauge hits the midpoint (as viewed in cab) then it starts to die. It is as if there is some thermostat or something I’m unaware of that is temp sensitive. The fact the fuel (or air?) starvation takes up to 15 min until final gasps and then “death” is puzzling.

I can let the gauge hit midpoint over 40 min at 1,000rpm or just 10 min at 2,500rpm (approx) in both cases when it is sufficiently warmed up it dies!
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min UPDATE!! #8  

oldnslo

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Danica
Does it spit and sputter or just die like turning the key off?

If just dies would tend to make me think more electrical vs fuel or air but I have been wrong more times than I care to admit. Anyway you can monitor the voltage signal to the fuel shut off coil. Or if takes time to cool before restart check to see if that coil is getting full power when stops before turning the key off.

I would think if air starved it would sputter or smoke but could be 110% wrong.

No clue if that model had some form of temp sensor that shuts engine down if it thinks it is over temp.

Wishing you the best on getting this resolved.
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min UPDATE!! #9  

5030

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Could be your lift pump is failing. They are pretty cheap and easy to replace and I feel your pain at getting to the sediment bowl with the loader on, all basically the same in that respect.
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min UPDATE!! #10  

Jerry/MT

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View attachment 761884Yes, same topic as before regarding a 1920 that runs 20 min then dies. Based on feedback in previous thread I have:

* Siphoned out old diesel and added 5 gal fresh
* removed and shot 30psi air thru every hose shown on top of fuel filter housing (for the one to tank I just shot in air to potentially dislodge any crud on the internal filter and the other two I completely removed to ensure they were totally clear)
* new fuel solenoid
* replaced fuel filter, bowl, and large o-ring
* checked tank cap
* exhaust color perfect
* screamed at it (as effective as previously noted tricks)

When it died just now I quickly unhooked the fuel line to the filter and it was gushing out. So, this suggests it can’t be fuel starvation or I’d have just a trickle coming down from tank.

If it isn’t a fuel starvation/quality issue could it be an air issue? I’ve ordered a new air filter due next week and the current one is 6 years old and seen 300 hours of work.

I haven’t bled the injectors but the fact it runs 20 min beautifully and then slowly dies doesn’t seem consistent with that.

Presence of a Woods FEL makes access really difficult.

The thing that is so boggling is that in a few hours it will start right up and run beautifully until the repeats itself. This is my last shot if the air filter doesn’t solve it (I doubt it will) I will have to get a diesel mechanic to look at it and in this case do dealers come and pick up a tractor or just try to fix it ‘in situ’ with equipment they would have in a repair truck. I’ve done everything on both my tractors for 20 years so this will be a first…

Thank you in advance. Pics attached just for curiosity sake and may show in “off” position inadvertently.

Finally, if the tank were clogged wouldn’t the engine run on the fuel in the sediment bowl until it dried up and then abruptly die?

Danica
Well you proved it's not a tank strainer clog! Your symptoms all point to a fuel delivery restriction. Have you checked the fuel filter discharge hose.? Do you have continuous full flow at the filter discharge? There could be a blockage in the fuel filter head that limits fuel through the filter.
When the tractor stopped and you pulled the hose to the fuel filter, was the filter fuel bowl full of fuel? when you changed the fuel filter did you bleed the filter? Are you sure the gasket in the filter is installed correctly and that you have the correct filter?

Describe the fuel delivery system? Does the fuel leave the tank, pass through the fuel filter, flow into a lift pump and the pass into the injector pump?

If you have a lift pump, have you checked it by removing the outlet line and cranking the engine (mechanical pump) or just turning the key on (electric pump). If you have this pump, when you test it, it should spew fuel like a cow peein' on a flat rock! If you don't have a lift pump, forget this test.

I would also try bleeding at the injectors. At this point, you have nothing to lose by trying this.

Do these checks in the order i have described and report back. Good Luck.
 
 
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