Runs nice and dies in 20 min

   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min #11  

rScotty

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Rural mountains - Colorado
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Kubota M59, JD530, JD310SG. Restoring Yanmar YM165D
All the syptoms point to fuel starvation - which means as annoying as this is, it is still a better type of mechanical problem than something broken.

This sounds too simple, but could it be that the air vent is clogged on the fuel tank? Well, probably not since you do say,
"....When it died just now I quickly unhooked the fuel line to the filter and it was gushing out. So, this suggests it can’t be fuel starvation or I’d have just a trickle coming down from tank."

But it costs nothing to quickly loosen the fuel filler cap when it starts to die. Simple test.

Uh....back to your quote - which fuel line did you unhook? Was it the one from the fuel tank to the filter? Or the one from the the filter to the inlet to the fuel pump?

It doesn't matter, because all I'm going to say is that is a good test but would repeat it and this time unhook the other line just to make sure that there wasn't a bubble of air hiding out of sight and then expanding with heat. THat kind of hidden air bubble could be in either the fuel filter cap or the solenoid & gets warm, expands, and shuts off the flow.
And let it run into a can or jar for a few seconds to make sure that you really have continuous flow and are not just emptying the cup of fuel trapped in the hose by the air bubble.

luck,
rScotty

good luck beats good planning
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min #12  

rScotty

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Apr 21, 2001
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Rural mountains - Colorado
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Kubota M59, JD530, JD310SG. Restoring Yanmar YM165D
Could be your lift pump is failing. They are pretty cheap and easy to replace and I feel your pain at getting to the sediment bowl with the loader on, all basically the same in that respect.

I didn't know that the Ford 1920 had a fuel transfer pump (lift pump) so I Googled it and sure enough there it is. So it jumps to the head of the list. Much as I hate to throw parts at a problem there comes a point when I will do a bit of that before calling a diesel mechanic.

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   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min
  • Thread Starter
#13  
OP
Danica

Danica

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Dec 22, 2010
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Location
Ulster County, NY
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CNH TC40DA & Ford 1920
Right, the die down process can take 10 to 15 minutes so the fuel solenoid is definitely not just springing back into the closed position or it would die fast. Anyway, someone said the solenoid *could* be malfunctioning slowly and a voltmeter did confirm that as the die down started the voltage to the solenoid seemed to fluctuate and go down. So, I bought a nice new one, convinced this was it but…not.

Thanks for your note, I will read thru again for ideas.
D
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min
  • Thread Starter
#14  
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Danica

Danica

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Location
Ulster County, NY
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CNH TC40DA & Ford 1920
Well you proved it's not a tank strainer clog! Your symptoms all point to a fuel delivery restriction. Have you checked the fuel filter discharge hose.? Do you have continuous full flow at the filter discharge? There could be a blockage in the fuel filter head that limits fuel through the filter.
When the tractor stopped and you pulled the hose to the fuel filter, was the filter fuel bowl full of fuel? when you changed the fuel filter did you bleed the filter? Are you sure the gasket in the filter is installed correctly and that you have the correct filter?

Describe the fuel delivery system? Does the fuel leave the tank, pass through the fuel filter, flow into a lift pump and the pass into the injector pump?

If you have a lift pump, have you checked it by removing the outlet line and cranking the engine (mechanical pump) or just turning the key on (electric pump). If you have this pump, when you test it, it should spew fuel like a cow peein' on a flat rock! If you don't have a lift pump, forget this test.

I would also try bleeding at the injectors. At this point, you have nothing to lose by trying this.

Do these checks in the order i have described and report back. Good Luck.

Thank you for all the ideas. I will try what you’ve suggested tomorrow if it isn’t raining. Didn’t check the outflow of fuel from sediment bowl. Will do that. Yes there is a fuel pump and from the repair manual it seems pretty ez to remove (that Woods FEL is such a PITA when it come to accessing the engine components I almost feel like this would be easier with it off. Plus it has a Sims cab which makes access to tank a real issue). A blockage in the fuel filter head would be a dream…I can only hope and will check tomorrow if possible. I will also try bleeding at the injectors.

Parenthetically a friend with a cat 0 Kubota poured a 5 gal tank of fuel into his machine and he never kept it capped resulting in him pouring an entire dead wasp nest int the tank!! He was able to resolve it with the air blowback but I think this problem will come back to haunt him. Exact same symptoms as mine ironically).
D
 
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   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min #15  

oldnslo

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Jan 20, 2010
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Northern, IL
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Branson 2400H, JD X540
If voltage to fuel shut off solenoid is fluctuating or dropping what is the source of power for the coil?

Can you mechanically tie the shut off open? Some models have levers that make this simple and some do not.

My reasoning is it to try and isolate is this electrical or fuel system problem.
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min
  • Thread Starter
#16  
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Danica

Danica

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176
Location
Ulster County, NY
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CNH TC40DA & Ford 1920
Well you proved it's not a tank strainer clog! Your symptoms all point to a fuel delivery restriction. Have you checked the fuel filter discharge hose.? Do you have continuous full flow at the filter discharge? There could be a blockage in the fuel filter head that limits fuel through the filter.
When the tractor stopped and you pulled the hose to the fuel filter, was the filter fuel bowl full of fuel? when you changed the fuel filter did you bleed the filter? Are you sure the gasket in the filter is installed correctly and that you have the correct filter?

Describe the fuel delivery system? Does the fuel leave the tank, pass through the fuel filter, flow into a lift pump and the pass into the injector pump?

If you have a lift pump, have you checked it by removing the outlet line and cranking the engine (mechanical pump) or just turning the key on (electric pump). If you have this pump, when you test it, it should spew fuel like a cow peein' on a flat rock! If you don't have a lift pump, forget this test.

I would also try bleeding at the injectors. At this point, you have nothing to lose by trying this.

Do these checks in the order i have described and report back. Good Luck.

Yep lift pump replacement looks easy as per repair manual. I haven’t checked cost yet. So far I have about $200 into this. Thank you for your ideas!
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min #17  

Jerry/MT

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Feb 2, 2008
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North Idaho-The Palouse
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New Holland TD95D, Ford 4610 & Kubota M4500
Yep lift pump replacement looks easy as per repair manual. I haven’t checked cost yet. So far I have about $200 into this. Thank you for your ideas!
By the looks of the lift pump in the picture, it appears to have a screw in the top. That usually provides access to a screen under that cover. That screen can clog partially or completely. If it is partially clogged ........
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min
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#18  
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Danica

Danica

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Ulster County, NY
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CNH TC40DA & Ford 1920
By the looks of the lift pump in the picture, it appears to have a screw in the top. That usually provides access to a screen under that cover. That screen can clog partially or completely. If it is partially clogged ........

Ohhhh, that could definitely be it. That’s #1 on my list tomorrow!!
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min #19  

ROUSTABOUT

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Luther Willis Hill, AR
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Pettibone, Ford, Massey Ferguson, International, JD, David Bradley, home mades
Have you taken fuel filter off and blown from fuel tànk to filter? Un do fuel pump and blown from filter to pump? I mean compressor blowing. Does your return look good? Blown tank out by putting a rag around blower and blocking return, to pressure the tank?
 
   / Runs nice and dies in 20 min #20  

dlctcg

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Jun 29, 2009
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CT
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New Holland TC40D, Lull 400, IR SP-48 Roller
When the machine dies (or starts to) can you tell what the level of fuel is in the fuel bowl? If it is not FULL (no air) then than you have a fuel delivery problem. We have the same fuel filter housing / valve on our TC40D & had a similar issue. Fuel flowed perfectly from the tank if the line was disconnected, because the fuel cap vent was working fine. Reconnect it to the fuel valve / filter housing & 10 to 15 mins machine would die. Had to disconnect all the houses from the filter housing & blow them out with air... it was the vent / return line that was causing our problem...

Just a thought... don't rule out a line blockage.
 
 
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