Slow turn over TO 20

Paddy · Jul 14, 2006

Some you may remember I restored an old TO-20 for a friend and delivered it down to FL about 2 years ago. He is having troubles starting it and says it turns over slow. nothing new there! In seams these old tractors with 6v systems turn over so slow evereything needs to be perfect to start. He has put it on the charger over night so a full charge is not the issue.

Battery aside, am I correct it's normal for these to turn over slow? Is there any soln for this? Will 12 v conversion do the trick?

Thanks.

scott_vt · Jul 14, 2006

Hi Paddy,
I wouldnt worry about a 12 v conversion, if the 6v system is working right you should be OK.

I would check all battery connections and make sure you using 00 Battery cables extra heavt duty, 6 v system needs that to turn over properly!

Paddy · Jul 14, 2006

That's the issue, working right? This old girl has always turned over slow. cables are fine and so are the conections. Is this nornal?

dieselsmoke1 · Jul 14, 2006

Lot's of old tractors around that have been converted from6v to 12v. I replaced the 6 v gen on my JD "M" with an alternator and a small 12v battery, been like that for 6 years now, no problems. Come to think of it, I don't remember pickng up the hand crank in about the same time span.

Soundguy · Jul 15, 2006

6v turns over slower than 12v... Just the way it is.

If I had a buck for every 'slow' starter post where the poster 100% ruled out the battery and the cable, cable ends, and connections as the root cause.. .. Bill gates would be calling me to match his and Warren Buffets charity donations. Putting a marginal battery on charge all night ( or 2 weeks ) won't help either. A new 40,000CCA battery won't help either if there is an insulation/restive white corosion coating ont he inside of the battery terminal preventing the copper wire from conducting with the lead terminal end.

Not saying this is the problem.. however it is worth investigating 3 times.. not just 1-2...

Next would be a question about the starter. Was it rebuilt? if not, brushes may begoing.. springs could be weak.. commie may need to be dressed and have mica undercut... bushings could be out of round and causing binding / dragging.. commie might have shorted sections... etc.

All of those will cause decreased starter speed. It only takes a small amount of wear in a starter bushing to let the shaft cock a little and put it in a bind when under load...

All that said.. I'm not a fan of converting to 12v just so i can hear my 6v starter spin over like my truck 12v starter.

If there are hard start problems.. investigate and correct them. Many 'slow' starting issues are compression related, and the 12v conversion is a band-aid as the faster rpm raises average compression per unit time.. thus making the worn out engine start easier.

Soundguy

Paddy said:
Some you may remember I restored an old TO-20 for a friend and delivered it down to FL about 2 years ago. He is having troubles starting it and says it turns over slow. nothing new there! In seams these old tractors with 6v systems turn over so slow evereything needs to be perfect to start. He has put it on the charger over night so a full charge is not the issue.

Battery aside, am I correct it's normal for these to turn over slow? Is there any soln for this? Will 12 v conversion do the trick?

Thanks.

Paddy · Jul 15, 2006

SoundGuy,

As always thanks for your input. The engine was rebuilt about 10 years ago under the owership of my friends uncle. I don't know what they called rebuilt but could have been the minimum ring job. It does not burn any oil to speak of. The starter was rebuilt about 7 years ago under the ownership of my friend, he bought it from his uncle. The friend moved to Lake Mary FL, not too far from you I assume and left me the tractor. I had it for several years replacing batteries as required. When I bought my KAMA 454, I spiffed her up and returned the tractor to him as a X-mass present, 1000 mi delivery! She has always turned over slow. It has always been an art to start.

The cables look good but I agree, change them! If it were mine, I would replace the starter, cables and batery.

Patrick

Soundguy · Jul 16, 2006

If it has starting issues.. then there are issues.

My 6v tractors start on the( 8n and 660 ) 2nd rev.. turn on ignition.. stomp clutch, set throttle to 3/4 hit starter button, on the first rev, pull choke for 1/4 second then release on 2nd rev.. unit starts.

It's on a set of points and condensor that are at least 6 years old. Has a new coil, and new wireing, and a rebuilt carb from a 9n ( tsx 33 not an 8n's updated tsx 241 ).

If it takes 'art' to start.. then there needs to be some work done. might be a plugged up jet in the carb.. might be coroded cables.. small cables. marginal battery, coroded ends, marginal coil... bad points or incorrectly gapped.. marginal key switch, lower than ideal compression, ( if a ring job only.. valves amy leak... a dry/wet comp test will be telltale of valves or rings, and give n indication of engine power based on comp readings ).

Starter rebuild could have menat he put in brushes.. or even just dressed the commie and left all else... might have just been bushings.. Heck.. might have just meant disassemble and clean and reassemble... kinda like a 'dupont restoration'.

I'd check electrical, then fuel not discounting air obstructions, and then look at the starter inards. That unit should start as easy as my 6v fords... no art involved...

Soundguy

Paddy · Jul 16, 2006

I agree, check and/or replace all items that can be causing it to be an art to start.

Any recomended sites for getting TO-20 parts that can't be bought at NAPA? Would you go for rebuilding the starter or can after markets be had?