Smoothest on bumps, Ferris IS, FrontMount, or CUT?

orangebluegreen · Aug 12, 2005

I know some of you have owned Ferris suspension ZTR’s and CUT’s.

Which is smoother over bumps while mowing?

Lets assume an IS 3000 or IS 1500 (which is designed differently) or possibly IS 4500-5000 and a CUT such as Kubota B7510/2410 (or any similar type) with 33” rear and 23” front turf’s and 59” wheelbase. Might be interesting to know how the longer 65" wheelbase compares also, but primary interest is the 59" machines. Does the Ferris suspension make up for the smaller tires of the ZTR, or do the larger diameter CUT tires smooth out as well or better than the suspension? Some of you have also said the front mount mower types are smoother riding than ZTR’s, I would like to know if one has a suspension seat on a front mount, how do they compare to the other two types?

Thanks for responses, I am trying to decide on CUT for everything, or new ZTR and a used (cheaper bigger) tractor. I’m tired of my sides hurting over bumps and that is going to be a major consideration.

Dargo · Aug 12, 2005

To keep a lot of the guys from rolling their eyes at hearing my story again, I'll keep it short. I have lots of practice from this spring at buying another ZTR to go along with my older diesel front mount Grasshopper. I had a half a dozen out to me property and drove each for a good hour or more. The Ferris IS3000 hands down rode much better than any other mid mount ZTR. Period. No question. So, I bought it.

One week later I put my new Ferris in my lake 3 times, discovered that with a mid mount ZTR you cannot mow inside corners, and discovered that even with suspension, a mid mount ZTR just doesn't ride as nice as a front mount. So, I traded my week old Ferris IS3000 on another new Grasshopper front mount. I've been as happy as a clam every since. (I still don't know why clams are so happy) My only regret is that I got a little cheap and bought the 3 cyl. Kubota gas engine rather than another diesel. Hey, want a practically brand new Grasshopper front mount ZTR with the smooth as silk 3 cylinder gas engine?! I'm telling you, there is positively no comparison to the smoothness of the 3 cylinder Kubota gas engine to any other gas powered ZTR engine. I pretty well drove 'em all. My only complaint is that it uses quite a bit more fuel than the diesel. If given the chance to do it over, I'd have sprung for the additional 2k and gotten another diesel.

ronjhall · Aug 12, 2005

I have a B2910 with a 72" MMM. It is by far one of the best mowing machines I have used for ride and cut. That being said, I purchased a JD F735 60" front mount mower after 3 years of cutting with the B2910. Found that it had 2 problems with doing my lawn.
1. Always wanted another attachment on when I had the MMM on. It only takes about 5 minutes to install or remove the mower. But it was a pain after a full week of work.
2. The Rops was always in the way of over hanging branches. Even after trimming trees and shrubs to clear ROP's. Always had to spend 1/2 hour to trim where the B2910 could not get at.
The F735 FM mower can get under pine trees like very few other mowers can. It has a 20 hp twin cylinder diesel. I can cut my lover 2 acres lawn in less than a hour. Dargo already mentioned fuel economy. 5 Gals of fuel will cut the lawn 4 times.
Before I bought the F735, I tested several different mowers on my place. The ZTR's had the worst ride of all the mowers I used. They were fast. But on my lawn, I could not stay on a ZTR at full speed.
One of the mowers I tested was a Grass Hopper front mower. It had a great ride and was smooth (has a longer wheelbase than the F735). I did not buy it because it was gas. With the price of fuel these days, I'm glad I went with the diesel.
I did miss one item when I bought my front mount mower. Wish I had gotten 4WD. I have hills on my place that cannot be climbed without raising the mower deck to put all the weight on the drive wheels.
The F735 was the least expensive diesel FM mower I could find. $9000 at end of season. Usually sells for $12000. Add 4WD (which is not available for the F735) will be another $1 - 2000 more.
I did not try a Ferris. There was not a dealer close by.

gamble77 · Aug 13, 2005

Its just the nature of the beast...a deck that is mounted under you will send the energy of the bumps through you. If the deck is mounted in front of you then you won't feel it everytime if bounces up and down...doesn't that make sense? I don't care how many shocks a mower has on it, the smoothest ride available on the market is an outfront mower...and in my opinion nobody makes a better outfront than GrassHopper.

orangebluegreen · Aug 13, 2005

Hi Dargo, yes I had seen many of your comments on other threads. Other than a 330’ drainage ditch out front, I don’t have to worry about hills in Fl. Now swampy land and mud, yes, so 4wd would be nice in a mower as I currently get stuck or the deck hung up on pine roots quite often. No doubt since both wheels are driving and the deck can be lifted higher to clear roots, a front mount would solve most problems. Looked at the Kubota 4wd front mounts but obviously they wouldn’t turn as sharp as a Z-turn. Looks like Grasshopper is basically the same as the Woods I guess. I have noticed previous your mention the front mount is smoother than the Ferris IS, and I’m not doubting you in any way, just looking at the pictures of how they’re laid out makes me scratch my head as to how they manage that. Your body is basically sitting over an unsuspended 23-24 inch tire the same as it would be on a ZTR or my Craftsman. Perhaps the smaller tires being trailing vs. out front is the difference. I assume my Craftsman is as rough as a ZTR other than it only goes 5.5mph and does flex some compared to a rigid ZTR. I usually run wide open throttle fastest gear and slow for bumps when need be. There are areas of my yard where I have to almost stop, and others I could probably be 15mph. Manual trans, many stops to back up (GRIND), 44” deck, and slow speed all add up to 4 hours cutting for me now and sore and stiff when I’m done.

Ronjhall, both of you hit on one of the biggest problems I have and that is not being able to get into corners. I have cross fenced dog paddocks within about ¾-1 acre and another 1.5 acres more open but completely pasture fenced and with shrubs and trees lining the entire property that need trimmed around. BTW....I planted the shrubs (110 of them) a week before Hurricane Charley and they were all blown over and had to be replanted, ahhh yes, today is one year anniversary of Mr. Charley...he murdered my best tree. I currently struggle with corners to the point I have considered redoing the fencing and making the corners round or triangled, but obviously very difficult thing to do as it is hard to build solid corners this way. I had also considered rounded corners because my herding dogs run the fenceline and wherever they stop at a corner produces low spots where water lays in the summer and kills the grass. A rounded corner the dogs would not stop but would continue past. That would also solve the mowing into corners problem.

Curious how close the front mounts or ZTR’s will mow up to an object, how much grass it leaves between machine and object, obviously placement of the gauge wheels will affect this. Currently I leave about 1-1.5’ on the Craftsman, and I’m sure a CUT would leave more.

Ronjhall, also curious what top speed is on the 2710/2910 in Mid-range and Low-range. Believe I’ve read top speed in Low on the two range hydros is about 5.5-6mph and I’m comparing the two.

If anyone else has personal experience of the ride between a Ferris IS, a Front-Mount, and a CUT, would enjoy hearing your experiences.

orangebluegreen · Aug 13, 2005

Certainly makes sense for a deck that rides on the ground. I have no experience with a non-suspended deck, mine doesn’t touch the ground, but I’ve seen many on these threads say their decks that ride on the ground do a great job on smooth ground but bounce badly on rough. My main problem is that of smaller tires basically try to fall into ruts rather than ride over them like larger diameter tires do. I have some ruts that will eventually be gone, but ant mounds, moles, dogs etc all make ground rough.

Dargo · Aug 13, 2005

( have noticed previous your mention the front mount is smoother than the Ferris IS, and I’m not doubting you in any way, just looking at the pictures of how they’re laid out makes me scratch my head as to how they manage that. Your body is basically sitting over an unsuspended 23-24 inch tire the same as it would be on a ZTR or my Craftsman.)

You got me there. I'd suppose gamble knows his equipment rather well and I'll take his explanation. Believe me, I would not have bought the Ferris with suspension if I had not believed the same thing upon rational observation. However, my own built in seat-o-meter tells me that the front mount does in fact ride better than even the mid mount with suspension.

Another thing that hit me strange about mid mount ZTR's is the fact that the stronger, heavier built, models rode the absolute worst. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif The JD 777 ZTR appeared to me as the strongest built mower I tested. I really wanted to buy it, but it flat rang my bell when I mowed with it. It jarred me so hard that my vision blurred! Maybe I'm getting old, but I'll readily admit that there are likely many ZTR mowers out there that are tougher than me. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

To answer your question about how close to a wall or fence I can mow on an inside corner, I guess I'd say that I end up leaving about 3" or so to trim. I may be able to get closer, but I have a really nice vinyl fence that I don't want marked up or scratched up by the mower.

My next door neighbor has 2 of the JD front mount mowing machines. I assume that they must be like what ron mentioned. Both of his are 4X4 and he goes on a lot of hills. If I had to choose my absolute dream machine for mowing, it would be one of those JD front mount 4X4's with an air conditioned cab. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Yeah, you know it. Before I retire, that is what I'll be using to mow around my house! My 2 Grasshoppers will go through a considerable amount of mud and will climb hills like a mountain goat, but it still is hot in the summer. Maybe that's why I have my wife on one Grasshopper, my oldest daugher on the other, and I'm in the cab of my 5030 mowing in the A/C. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

ronjhall · Aug 13, 2005

My front mower leaves about 8" out front on the center blade. The other 2 blades are back about 12" I have attached a picture from JD of the 7 Iron mower deck. The front anti scalp rollers keep from getting closer. My mower is offset about 6" to the left side. Which allow me to get within 2" on the side.
Manual says B2910 will run 3.2 MPH in low and 5.5 in mid range.
The 60" front mower will cut the same amount of lawn in the open as my 72" MMM in 1 hour.

orangebluegreen · Aug 14, 2005

( Another thing that hit me strange about mid mount ZTR's is the fact that the stronger, heavier built, models rode the absolute worst.)

Dargo:
No flex in them I’m sure is the reason. Flex works like a form of spring. I used to race Karts that ran 115+mph and we had the same thing, some chassis would flex more than others and it would depend on tire setup, speed of track, and radius of the corner which Kart would work better. Try hitting a bump at 115mph 1.5” off the ground with no suspension...believe me, there is no vision, you point it in the right direction you want to end up in before you go through the bumps. I had built one trailer for racing that was not suspended. I drove from Ohio to Daytona and by the time I got there everything in the trailer was a tangled mess thrown everywhere. After that I added leaf springs. I once drove the trailer about 5 miles and over a curb before I stopped to get something out of the back. I looked and realized I had left my coffee sitting on the inside fender and it was still in the same spot unspilled....big difference.

Ronjhall:
That answers a couple of major questions I had. I’m surprised, I was under the impression top speed mid range was around 8mph and I had thought that might be ideal for mowing so you could mash the hydro all the way down and not have to be mid pedal. If it’s 5.5mph in mid range, so much for that idea, it’s the same as the 2 speed hydro as far as I know. That was the only reason I’ve considered a 2710/2910 over a 7510/7610/2410. I have the JD and Kubota sales brochures and had looked at the 735. I looked at JD’s site last evening and they no longer show the 735, but those 1400-1500’s sure look nice.

How you all get your wives on them to mow is another trick. Mine acts like she has done me a favor by snapping low branches by hand and leaving them where they fall. Some of you talk about the women doing all this work makes me wonder if I don’t need a new woman rather than new tractor? Whew that’s a real toss up! Only kidding gals, no one could replace a new tractor ha!

Reason I’m asking some of these questions here is I have no local dealers who have inventory so I am trying to target a road trip to see the models I want to look at.

fig · Aug 16, 2005

Dargo,

If your in NC some time; there is a JD F1145 for sale (long shot I know). The guy is asking $8000. 420 hrs, diesel, 4wd, 72" front deck, and real clean. I drove it around and everything looks and works well. I looked at several weeks ago and he still has it. He also mentioned to come back after a week or so and he would probably take less than that. I thought about buying it for my property and some other yards I mow, but I have reconsidered and am opting for a ZT. The 72" deck and overall size of the mower would just be too much...not to mention that I don't have to worry about too many hills.

Fig