Stability of CK20S versus CK27

[Not Retired Yet]

Hi everyone - is there much difference in stability between the Ck20s and the ck27? I hope to buy one of them this winter. I have several acres (mostly a single hill) that I will be clearing brush from. I think the 20 should do what I need but see a lot of threads saying go 1 size larger if possible. Whichever I get will have filled R4's and a grapple. Any input is really appreciated! Thanks

 

[Highbeam]

The larger CK has much larger tires and wheels and a wider stance. Both will help with stability. When you're on a sidehill and one of those tiny tires falls into a hole, the machine is pitched and could roll. Larger tires are less likely to fall into the hole.

 

[JonKioti]

I haven't rolled my CK-20S HST yet, and intend to never do so.

I don't think you will get any size tractor to feel safe if you are going to drive is side on to the slope of the hill. You may get a degree or two in the difference, but either machine will feel precarious.

What I can say is the machine feels far more top heavy with the Kioti backhoe on than off. If I was to work where this is an issue, I would remove it first. It only take a couple of minutes to do so.

Jon

 

[Not Retired Yet]

Thanks Guys. I hadn't thought about the smaller tires and holes, that's a good point! As I said, I plan on having filled R4s to help with stability. The bulk of the work will be with a combination of grapple (after chainsaw, etc) and a box blade to cut some type of maintainable trails. All the brush and small trees from the steeper area I'll drag down by hand or use a 4-wheeler where I can pick the stuff up with the grapple. I plan on leaving all the trees of any real size in place - just opening everything up underneath the canopy. I sure wouldn't mind a backhoe but can't afford the added expense - maybe sometime down the road.

 

[IslandTractor]

I think Highbeam is correct. That stated I'm not so sure it makes much difference as the sorts of things that cause flipovers are not usually "just barely" types of events and are the result of dynamic forces where tractor speed, angle, FEL load and position, rear implement etc etc are all probably more important than the static engineering stability figures. Yes there are holes a smaller tire would fall into that a bigger one would not but equally there might be hole edges that would support a smaller tractor but cave in with a heavier one as it drives by. Rocks or stumps or logs on the high side will affect both too. What none of us has are the actual engineering figures that show what the basic advantage of the larger wider machine is but I'd still guess that dynamic forces are the biggest factors. That is good news because the operator has some control over that. Keeping weight down, not crossing a slope you don't know or cannot see the ground clearly, going slowly, loading tires, keeping FEL low etc etc are all probably more important than a small percentage increase in static stability with the larger tractor. Best of all, go up and down rather than across slopes.

I had a CK20 and now a DK40se. I am no more comfortable on slopes with the new tractor based on my sphincter meter even though I agree with Highbeam that the bigger tractor is technically probably a bit more stable.

 

[Not Retired Yet]

Thanks Island, I appreciate the input. It was some of your threads/pictures that really got me thinking about the grapple. Then there were the threads on hydraulic top-n-tilt and so forth. Now instead of looking at a CK20s with loader and backhoe I'm looking at a CK27 with loader/grapple and box blade with TNT....:laughing:

 

[VictorW]

Now that you seem to be leaning towards the CK27, you now have several horsepower numbers to think about in that size of tractor. I have the CK30hst and at times have used all the power it has. That may be only 5 maybe 10% of the time. Otherwise, it takes care of my work without any difficulty. I didn't want to make tractor buying any harder. Just something else to think about and unfortunately, as the hp goes up, so does the price.

 

[Gittyup]

Both tractors are pretty close on the stability thing. The twent is narrower, but also lower to the ground.

What would set them apart for me is that the heavier tractor is more likely to remain stable when picking up a grapple full of material. It is when carrying loads, especially uneven and unpredictable grapple loads that one has to be careful. I'd go for the bigger tractor.

You only need more than the 27 HP if you plan to do bush hogging, heavy tilling, deep snow plowing, or big wood chipping. Then I'd pay the difference and move up to the CK35. For grapple and loader work, the extra HP is of no real benefit. And, even for ground egagement tasks, you will most often lose traction before you run out of HP. If you want to maximize pulling power, go gear instead of HST.

 

[Not Retired Yet]

Thanks everyone. Because of my lack of experience and the amount of grapple and bucket work I figure HST would be best for me. The main reason for upping it to the ck27 instead of CK20 is really for the additional hydraulic capability. At this point I don't see where I will need any heavy duty ground engagement work - no rush on getting stuff done and as was said the higher the HP goes the higher the price goes.

 

[IslandTractor]

[QUOTE="Not Retired Yet] The main reason for upping it to the ck27 instead of CK20 is really for the additional hydraulic capability. .[/QUOTE]

Look closely at the specs for loader and tractor. There is very little difference in loader capacity between the CK20s/jl120b and the CK27/kl130b. Only a hundred pounds or so. Also, any extra hydraulic output is probably eaten by the hst to move the heavier tractor. As far as hydraulics and loader are concerned you get minimal benefit by moving to the 27.

What you do get besides bigger and heavier is a three speed hst.

Weight can be an advantage as Gittyup noted but adding weight with a bush hog for ballast gets the weight lower than just having a heavier tractor.

The CK20 is a remarkable bang for the buck and moving up in size doesn't always get you much extra performance. When I decided to move up I ended up going all the way to the DK40se as the bigger CK tractors had relatively small increases in performance in areas I was focused on. For me that was loader capacity. If you just want to run a bigger bush hog then getting a bigger CK would make sense.