Terrified of tipping - how about an inclinometer?

[timetobakethedonuts]

Lots of replies related to the vital issue of rollover. When my first and only tractor was delivered (Massey GC-2300 TLB) on my steep road, as the guy backed it off the trailer, it tipped momentarily towards the rear. The driver looked shocked, but it tipped back onto all 4 wheels. My tires are not filled. He said "you have to be careful of rollovers - they will kill you." So I immediately looked online, and found a large database that gave pictures and details and anecdotal comments on fatal injuries. I spent maybe 4 hours reading as many as I could. Many were older operators - which is something to consider as you age. Some were young inexperienced operators, some in the middle.

I have a property that is entirely sloped, with a fair amount of 20%-25% grading. I tip my backhoe to the side as you described, often. Routinely keep the loader arms as low as possible. The dicyest situations I have gotten into in 600 hours of use have come from a moment of inattention, or brushing against a control inadvertently. I have had a wheel lift off the ground on more than one occasion, and it is very unsettling. So unsettling it reminds me to be careful, which I try always to be. One mistake is all it takes. You asked - if I were to make one change, I would have my tires filled. I mow these slopes with an old Simplicity garden tractor, and when I added wheel weights for winter plowing, I also found that mowing on the slopes was much easier.

Personally I would have little use for an inclinometer. It would give a false sense of security. While it may be somewhat useful in some situations, my guess is there are several where it would not give me warning because I wasn't looking at it or a tip precipitously occurs. I would hate to rely on it. Having that fear is a good thing, and knowing the limits of your equipment and experience. I would rather rely on my internal needle, not one on a gauge.

 

[DonaldP]

I was seriously thinking of installing one of the Level Guages I use for my sailboat.
They work great and I can usually be found at about 28 to 35 degrees if the wind is very stiff in my particular sailboat.
But… that’s where a gauge like this stops being a reality.

The only way to know at what point my sailing rig will roll is to roll it, or …at least get it to the point where you are hanging onto something more solidly connected to the boat than the person next to you !!

So yes I agree that the only way to know is to either get it close or get it to the point where you are uncomfortable going any further and then mark that on the guage, in the position the Gauge is in when you test it.

I was thinking about an actual test using a support like an automotive lift in a garage with something against the loader vertical support brackets to support the tractor at a point where it might begin to tilt over (using a floor Jack) but with the car lift to prevent full rolling of the equipment, or only a minimal amount of roll to not damage the equipment.

With the increased use of cabs today, that resistance to roll will decrease with the change in the center of gravity of the equipment (CG).

With all of this there are also “dry weight” considerations versus “live weight”.
Dry weight being with no additional gear in the tractor whatsoever compared to live weight being with chains, tools, add-ons to the cab or other material.

Don’t forget that with quick attach loaders being a major use option today, it’s very easy to change the CG of any piece of equipment either higher or lower very easily without the operator understanding the possible consequences. That’s just with the attachment change, but one can’t disregard the height of that attachment (either front or rear attachment). That one single variable will have more on the impact of the CG than anything else period.

So even given full disclosure of the CG for a given piece of equipment, from the factory, the roll over effects will still be challenging to calculate for any given tractor based on everything … including the weight and height of the occupant(s)

A daunting task for sure, but like me, if you’re inquisitive and have a desire to protect yourself from a general rollover sItuation, then an attempt to give yourself the maximum amount of angle you might want to visit is better than having no idea where the break point is until it happens!

I forgot to mention that CG also has a forward and aft component, with the tilt ot rollover subject to a variable of weight forward or aft of a horizontal line… not just vertical.

Add that to your equation and it gets very messy very quickly.

Let’s say you have a 1200 lbs mower of ballast on the 3 point, at 6” high. And you have little or no ballast or implements on the front.

If you get into a situation where the tractor could tilt (roll), then the rear end will have a lower center of gravity than the front end, causing the front to attempt to“roll” or lift the front end, and then depending on the distance away from the total CG of the tractor (in both directions) then the unit may only lift a front tire at that angle.

But if the mower were at transport height or say 2 ft, then there is less distance to the rear ballast due to the pivoting ballast closer to the center or CL of the tractor weight to the total tractor CG, and the entire unit could roll Vs just picking up a front tire…. Lots of variables !!!

 

[v908]

I get your concern about comfort (in the absence of solid numbers for when she might tip). I installed an inclinometer like you linked to on my UTV, but wanted a bit more for my tractor so I went with one of these. It's not perfect, but I make note of the angle when I'm tipping (and uncomfortable) so I start to really understand what angles it's capable of versus my stomach. I should note, the one tip-over I had was on nearly level ground. Bucket high (to clear a fence) when the right front wheel decided to dig a hole (4wd) in soft sand. That angle, plus the high weight, put me right over. I've added fluid in my rear tires and routinely get to 10 to 15° slopes sideways without issues, but still pucker occasionally.

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[prestond]

Alright, I admit it! I'm a crybaby when it comes to running any of my tractors on an incline. I'm terrified of tipping the machine on its side (or worse!). I know, fear is a good thing, but I get the heeby-jeebies whenever one of the rear wheels goes over a rock and the machine lifts up just a little on one side. On the 4600, if there's a little incline I'll often put down the stabilizers so if it does begin to tip, it will have something to rest on before it goes all the way over. Also, I'll turn the backoe over to the high side to add counter weight. Tires can be loaded, wheels weights added, and the wheels set for a wider track. All these things can, and should be done. But what about a way to measure how much the machine is leaning?

I find it odd that I have never seen any references to putting an inclinometer on the tractor dash. Has anybody done this? What about something like this? Amazon.com: Sun Company 201-F Lev-o-gage Inclinometer | USA-Made Level for Off-Road Vehicle, Jeep, Truck, RV, Camper, Trailer, or Boat: Industrial & Scientific

(I have no interest or involvement with promoting a product. I'm just asking.)

I bought that exact gauge for my Ventrac. I like it.


Like Dirty Harry said: "A man's got to know his limitations."

 

[CoyPatton]

My 2 cents: the gauge is nifty, but not reliable. Reliability of the gauge changes based upon height of loader and implements.
I suggest increasing width of rear tire spread and filling tires/wheel weight. Tire/wheel weight should lower your center of gravity increasing stability. Wider rear tread depth should also increase your stability.
Of course a front tire dropping into a low spot (hole or ditch) can still cause issues. Thus a good standard operating practice is to keep your loader and implements as close to the ground as is reasonable and to minimize travel across a slope when possible, traveling up and down sloes is safest.
If you experience a pucker factor moment, stop immediately! Always have your head in the game for what you are doing!

 

[Hoho223]

Alright, I admit it! I'm a crybaby when it comes to running any of my tractors on an incline. I'm terrified of tipping the machine on its side (or worse!). I know, fear is a good thing, but I get the heeby-jeebies whenever one of the rear wheels goes over a rock and the machine lifts up just a little on one side. On the 4600, if there's a little incline I'll often put down the stabilizers so if it does begin to tip, it will have something to rest on before it goes all the way over. Also, I'll turn the backoe over to the high side to add counter weight. Tires can be loaded, wheels weights added, and the wheels set for a wider track. All these things can, and should be done. But what about a way to measure how much the machine is leaning?

I find it odd that I have never seen any references to putting an inclinometer on the tractor dash. Has anybody done this? What about something like this? Amazon.com: Sun Company 201-F Lev-o-gage Inclinometer | USA-Made Level for Off-Road Vehicle, Jeep, Truck, RV, Camper, Trailer, or Boat: Industrial & Scientific

(I have no interest or involvement with promoting a product. I'm just asking.)

I have a BobCat CT120. I have an inclinometer sitting in my garage. I asked BobCat what the tip factor was and they wouldn’t divulge that information. Inclinometer not installed.

 

[jacspath]

I would never put one of these things on my Kubota. I believe it will [as many have mentioned] give a totally false [and possibly fatal] sense of security and would lead me into over riding that pucker on my seat. As Piloon points out so eloquently, to use it you would have to test it out in the way he outlines. And that would, as I said, take you attention away from where it should be focused. And then there is that uneven ground under the down hill tires [which will be amplified by the speed you are traveling] which will catch you out every time. Focus on your own body's 'gauge' and be cautious. Use it up and down the slope, not across if you are nervous about it. We want to hear you on this forum again sometimes.

 

[Gord Baker]

Alright, I admit it! I'm a crybaby when it comes to running any of my tractors on an incline. I'm terrified of tipping the machine on its side (or worse!). I know, fear is a good thing, but I get the heeby-jeebies whenever one of the rear wheels goes over a rock and the machine lifts up just a little on one side. On the 4600, if there's a little incline I'll often put down the stabilizers so if it does begin to tip, it will have something to rest on before it goes all the way over. Also, I'll turn the backoe over to the high side to add counter weight. Tires can be loaded, wheels weights added, and the wheels set for a wider track. All these things can, and should be done. But what about a way to measure how much the machine is leaning?

I find it odd that I have never seen any references to putting an inclinometer on the tractor dash. Has anybody done this? What about something like this? Amazon.com: Sun Company 201-F Lev-o-gage Inclinometer | USA-Made Level for Off-Road Vehicle, Jeep, Truck, RV, Camper, Trailer, or Boat: Industrial & Scientific

(I have no interest or involvement with promoting a product. I'm just asking.)

You have a built-in Inclinometer. It is your Brain. If you feel unsafe you are in the wrong place.
A gadget on the dash won't stop the roll. Neither will the stabilizers. Go up and down the incline, not crosswise.

 

[Bob Rooks]

This is the one I have and I also use it for grading and making slopes. it gives you side-to-side as well as fore-and-aft, and it's in usable increments. I've had it to about 12° and my butt was beginning to pucker. 10° to 15° is yellow and I stay out of the red. I wouldn't even consider the one that goes to 45°.

 

[VoyagernOK]

Alright, I admit it! I'm a crybaby when it comes to running any of my tractors on an incline. I'm terrified of tipping the machine on its side (or worse!). I know, fear is a good thing, but I get the heeby-jeebies whenever one of the rear wheels goes over a rock and the machine lifts up just a little on one side. On the 4600, if there's a little incline I'll often put down the stabilizers so if it does begin to tip, it will have something to rest on before it goes all the way over. Also, I'll turn the backoe over to the high side to add counter weight. Tires can be loaded, wheels weights added, and the wheels set for a wider track. All these things can, and should be done. But what about a way to measure how much the machine is leaning?

I find it odd that I have never seen any references to putting an inclinometer on the tractor dash. Has anybody done this? What about something like this? Amazon.com: Sun Company 201-F Lev-o-gage Inclinometer | USA-Made Level for Off-Road Vehicle, Jeep, Truck, RV, Camper, Trailer, or Boat: Industrial & Scientific

(I have no interest or involvement with promoting a product. I'm just asking.)

DanMc77, I'm with you on being scared of a rollover -- I lost a cousin to a tractor rollover when I was young -- and I can never tell when I'm too steep so sidehills just scare me. I was raised farming terraces, so I know I can plow a fair sidehill where I don't have to watch for rocks or holes that change the angle suddenly and might even add a bounce or jolt that could further unbalance things.

I've used several large tractors that had inclinometer clinometers on them to show both pitch and cant. These were installed to help in building roads and terraces where you need to follow the contour and not go downhill or uphill so end-to-end (pitch) was also critical. And I run an Altoz TRX 766i that I got specifically for mowing steep sidehills; it is a big zero turn on tracks and has a cant meter right between my feet to show me what angle the sidehill is. It is stable to 40° but 30° feels like you can hardly stay on it and couldn't if you weren't strapped in. It has a bushhog deck and will mow anything. I take it places without hesitation that taking either of my tractors would terrify me, but I'm sitting down with a low center-of-gravity with a wide set of tracks outside me.

Neither of my tractor manuals give any guidance on maximum sidehills, probably for liability reasons.