Toolcat or Utility Tractor

[DocD]

I have been reading this forum for a few months now and have been really impressed with the information and knowledge that is shared here. I was introduced to the toolcat by a relative and have been very intrigued by its design and function. A month ago I purchased about 10 acres of land that will need mowing and landscaping for our house. I initially was thinking about a toolcat for mowing, landscaping, and eventially snowblowing our driveway. Adding this all up with the new D-series I had a few quotes at about $43,000 with the mower, snowblower, and bucket. This was quite a sticker shock for a residential homeowner (hard to justify a $43,000 mower and snowblower). I then demoed one and really liked the job it did and was really impressed - almost ready to write the check, when..... A friend of mine who is an engineer with Deere suggested that I first look at a JD 3000 series tractor with a cab, air, belly mower, front mounted snowblower, and 2000# + lifting wt. loader. With all the options (fully loaded), and equipment, the 3720 was about $10,000 cheaper.

Now I am writing to you all with the knowledge.... why should I spend the extra 10 grand for the toolcat as the only benefits that I can see are the 2 person cab instead of only 1 and the hydralic dump box. Otherwise the JD has about the same HP with more PTO HP and it also has a 3pt. hitch along with the mower actually being a true finish mower with higher blade speed since it is run off a mid-mount PTO with mechanical drive. Don't get me wrong, I really liked the toolcat when I demoed it, but am currently having a very hard time justifying the extra $10,000 over the loaded JD- Please help.

Thanks,
DW

 

[theoshin]

i traded in my tractor for the tc

the tc is better in tighter quarters - around houses, barns, trees, etc. it's bucket is much more precise and you can see what you are doing much better - for example landscaping up against the house/barns. it's loader in my opinion is much better than a tractor for fine work like landscaping. i can snowblow my driveway with tight turnabout and 8 garage doors with only using a shovel in two small corners - the tc can turn sharp enough to blow perpendicular to the doors - go one way then turn around and do the other door. i use my broom for snow more than anything and it gets used several times per month to clean all the pine needles off the driveway. also much quicker to change attachments. it just is more precise allowing me to get closer to everthing with every attachment.

the downside - it does not have anywhere near the traction of a tractor with real tires. it will not do well in mud or soft conditions. i also find it difficult to dig into our soil as it contains a high concentration of clay. we are having major landscaping done now and my tc was not able to dig out for the patio - even loaded in the back the tires lost traction. the landscapers used a large skid steer to move out 100 yards of dirt. others have had better luck - in the softer areas i had no difficulty moving out 12 inches around the barns. it's attachments are also significantly more expensive. it also is more expensive to buy and likely has a higher upkeep cost vs the jd 3000 series as it has more complicated engineering. tractors have been around for a long time and jd has figured out all the bugs.

if i were to do a lot of mowing and occasional snowblowing/removal on a straight driveway i would probably get the jd. if your driveway is long with turns or a tight area i would go with the tc. with the tc i can snowblow my entire driveway and barns in 1/3 the time it took with the tractor. it also does a much finer job. there is no way i could creep inches away from my doors with a snowblower mounted on a tractor. visibility is also much better as you sit immediately behind the attachment.

i would go with the tc unless you really want the 3pt attachments or have a straight driveway. overall i think the tractor excels in the field and tc on the roads and in/around buildings.

btw - what attachments specifically were included in that price???
my 240 snowblower was near 6500 and the 72 or 90 inch mowers list at around 4700.

ts

 

[DocD]

I do know what you are saying about the maneuverability of the toolcat. When I did demo the machine, it was very nice to be able to mow around the trees (about 2000 seedlings on the property currently). I would be getting the JD with the turf tires so the traction problem would probably be the same with both vehicles. I also have a concern about the mower as when I did get into the deep grass/weeds at about 2-3ft high, the mower would skip and have a tough time with the thistle - have not tried the JD with mower but assume this may be better with the higher blade speed of the true finishing mower with the PTO drive.

The price quotes were very fair in my opinion with reading the info. on this board. It was quoted with 5600T D-series with cab/heat/air, HD battery, High Flow Package, Attachment control, 62" general purpose bucket, 90" mower, 72" SB200 Snowblower, 9.6 Drivemotor package, engine block heater, freight and setup.

The JD 3720 with 60"blower, CX300 loader, 72" 7iron mower deck, deluxe cab, and turf tires was the other package for almost exactly $10,000 less.

Keep the info/opinions coming, as I really appreciate the first hand knowledge that you all have with both machines.

Thanks,
DW

 

[dsb5610]

DW,

I mow pastures and periodically CRP areas with a 72" near finish on my Toolcat. I find that anything 2-3ft tall requires either one very slow pass or 2 passes. The distance from the front to back of the mower is not long enough for that size material to get stood up for a clean cut. My guess is you would find the same thing to some degree with the JD mower. I had a 2210 and a 60" deck and that was my observation. There are better options for mowing that type of material. If you will be cutting that height once then re-cutting at 1ft I think you will like the results.

dsb

 

[Rolando]

I bought my Toolcat when I planned to use it on a five acre parcel. I ended up on a 13 acre pecan grove and have really missed the 3-pt hitch. There just aren't any good solutions around the lack of a 3-pt on the Toolcat. If you will need to work the land (tilling, disking, etc) I don't think the Toolcat is tool for it.

Also, having a 3-pt hitch would let you consider a flail mower. I think they give you a better cut that the semi-finish rotary mowers, can deal with taller grass better, and mulch the clippings better as well. And you can get wider units than the 6 feet of the belly mowers. If you get one with a forward rotating drum, it will stand up the grass blades the tractor tires lay down before cutting them so that you don't end up with tracks of uncut grass.

By the way, before making your decision, I would check out the Kubota Grand L40's. I looked at comparable Kubota and JD tractors and the Kubotas blew away the JD's, in my opinion, as well as costing several thousand less.

 

[yellowdogsvc]

IAlso, having a 3-pt hitch would let you consider a flail mower. I think they give you a better cut that the semi-finish rotary mowers, can deal with taller grass better, and mulch the clippings better as well. And you can get wider units than the 6 feet of the belly mowers. If you get one with a forward rotating drum, it will stand up the grass blades the tractor tires lay down before cutting them so that you don't end up with tracks of uncut grass.

.

There are plenty of hydraulic flail mowers out there that will fit a toolcat since it takes many of the attachments that a bobcat will take. Also, isn't a 3pt hitch an option on the D series out yet?

I am also interested in this discussion. I have two s300 Bobcats and I am considering adding a toolcat or a tractor to my machines. I have a person coming to work for me and I thought I could train them better in a tractor or toolcat versus a skidsteer.
I work in rough conditions mostly but want a machine that can move mulch from point a to point b on a ranch and especially for mowing with a brushcat in cleared fields and around and under oak trees. The Bobcats just beat me up too much mowing and fuel consumption is real high for that type of work. Tractor guys can price much lower. Anyone have any experience with the toolcat and brushcat combo? What about using an industrial grapple?

 

[theoshin]

i use the 60 inch brushcat.

it is extremely durable. it will cut 2-3 inch saplings with no difficulty. i use it for my woods roads. much heavier built that the rhino i had (3pt). it weighs in at 1700lbs and is only 60 inches wide.

out in my pasture with the heavy grass green and 3ft high i can go around 2.5-3mph with the brushcat. it leaves a very clean cut. if it was mowed earlier i am sure you could go faster. a similiar priced tractor would get you into the 75-90 hp range even with a cab. that tractor (i had a mccormick cx85 and a jd 5410) can run a 7 or 8 ft brushcutter type mower at 4-5 mph in the same field at that grass height. i ran a 84 inch rhino at 4mph with my tractor. 2.5mph with a 60 inch brushcat is going to take a lot longer. I would be interested to know how a 4000 or 3000 series jd or grand 40 kubota would do with a 6 ft mower in my fields. i am sure they could not handle a 7 ft brush mower. problem is that the 85 hp tractors are too big for work off the fields. i could not justify keeping the big tractor for work in my 2 pastures only.



ts

 

[Rolando]

I'm certainly not the expert, and someone can correct me, but I don't think we can directly compare the horsepower of the Toolcat and a tractor. In the Toolcat, that 56 hp is going into pushing a lot of hydraulic pressure. Everything in the Toolcat runs off of hydraulics. In a tractor, a lot of the engine power is going into driving the PTO. The tractor hydraulic pressure isn't nearly as high as the Toolcat's.

I don't know if this is similar to your situation, but I have a Befco catalog and they list their 84" cutting width rotary cutter as working with tractors from 50 to 100 hp. I don't think the 3000 JD's would work, but the 4520 or 4720 should. They're 53 and 58 hp respectively. In the Kubotas, the L5040, 5240 and 5740 all are 50 hp or more. Granted these tractors are at the low end of the recommended range, but it seems that they wouldn't list 50hp as acceptable if the performance would suffer.

About the 3pt hitch option for the Toolcats, as far as I can tell from postings here it is still in design and not available. Radman1 posted this thread last month talking about it.

 

[yellowdogsvc]

i use the 60 inch brushcat.

it is extremely durable. it will cut 2-3 inch saplings with no difficulty. i use it for my woods roads. much heavier built that the rhino i had (3pt). it weighs in at 1700lbs and is only 60 inches wide.
ts

I have been using brushcats since they were first introduced. I wore out my first one and I am on my second. I use it to finish a property after I have sheared, chipped, grinded and moved of the chips. I have a lot of low live oak branches to avoid. The height of the skidsteer, the beating I take, and the fact that is has to skid to turn, make me really try to avoid mowing anymore. I just don't like the driving around all day. Just not comfy anymore.

here's a pic of a typical brushcat job.

 

[jmfox]

Could you accomplish the same result with brush hog on your tractor?

jmf