Trouble starting a deutz: dead starter

[ponytug]

I went out to start my 1445 the other day, and it barely turned over.

I used it, then put it on a trickle charger and then my wife was able to use once.

I then tried to use it again, and it barely turned over. Battery voltage was fine. The voltage at the PT solenoid was fine, and functioning. Applying current to the starter solenoid didn't cause the engine to crank, but the solenoid seemed to work.

After cleaning the paint of the inner Bosch solenoid output, application of full power there didn't work either.

Analysis: dead starter. It seems hard to believe it could be dead in less than 400 hours, but it really seemed to be the case.

The battery wasn't in the greatest shape either by the end of this, despite being jumped and charged.

On disassembly, there was some rust on the starter "face", where it bolts to the engine, but the bolts looked as if they were making reasonable electrical contact with the engine. Nothing obviously wrong with the starter.

I tried to find a new, or a rebuilt, Bosch locally, and struck out. The rebuilts are about half the price locally, and a third the price on the internet. Napa/O'Reilly could order rebuilts.
The original starter is a Bosch is 001-223-06, cross matches to

Lester 18951
Wilson 91-15-7159
Voltage: 12
Power: 2.3 KW
Pinion Diameter: 34.5mm
Teeth: 9
Rotation: CW
​

It seems to be the only starter with this size/bolt pattern. I did try to find a higher power version, to help with cold cranking, but I did not find a drop in replacement. (It may exist, I just didn't find one.)

The specification sheet on the rebuilt starter suggests that 1000 Amps may be the peak draw, and 600 Amps may be required for 1500rpms.

On reassembly, I added some washers for better electrical contact, and added more corrosion resistance/conduction improvement paste to the eyelets and solenoid posts. I also added some copper paste to the the starter/engine block interface (waterproofing/conduction improvement).

The battery is a group 24 (the original had no size markings on it anywhere). A Sears diehard gold just fits. In principle, an AGM battery would delivery more cranking amps, but it looked to be 3X the cost, and I passed.

Net: it cranks and turns over faster and the engine catches sooner than it ever did.

Better than new!

Any thoughts on starter lifetimes?

All the best,

Peter

 

[BobRip]

Thanks for the report. Does seem like as short life. Do you do a lot of starting? Run for a few minutes, shut off, start again, repeat?

 

[ponytug]

Dear Bob,

I try not to do lots of little starts, given the wear and tear on the engine. Mostly the tractor is on for 1-3 hours at a stretch.

Now it could have gotten warmer than it liked out here...

I did not take it apart and look to see if the brushes had melted, but it wouldn't surprise me, given the symptoms.

Not really sure what to do about it going forward though.

All the best,

Peter

Thanks for the report. Does seem like as short life. Do you do a lot of starting? Run for a few minutes, shut off, start again, repeat?

 

[woodlandfarms]

So, I have to ask, did you try a new battery before you tried the starter? Cells go bad in those batteries, especially in abusive relationships like ours. They will read fine but not produce the amps needed.

As for starters, My PT has a new one from my purchase and no issues. I generally give starters a luck of the draw rating (most work well for a long time, once in a while...)

Carl

 

[ponytug]

Great thought, but, yes, I did try a new battery first. At four years, given the slopes, bumps, heat, I figured it was due for replacement.

I'll go with luck of the draw on this. It seemed like such a low probability event, that it took me awhile to get down to the starter itself. (e.g. I checked for bad cables before I checked that the starter had died.)

All the best,

Peter

So, I have to ask, did you try a new battery before you tried the starter? Cells go bad in those batteries, especially in abusive relationships like ours. They will read fine but not produce the amps needed.

As for starters, My PT has a new one from my purchase and no issues. I generally give starters a luck of the draw rating (most work well for a long time, once in a while...)

Carl

 

[Bob999]

Thanks for the informative post.

I am still running the original Interstate size 24 battery in my 1845--purchased in 2002. I hope your experience with the starter is not indicative of the expected started lifetime!

What did a replacement starter run? After my experience with the fuel shutoff solenoid I would expect it to be quite expensive.

 

[MossRoad]

On a side note... do you have any companies that will rebuild starters in your area? We have an excellent electric motor shop here that does good work. It usually runs about the same or even a tad bit higher as getting a rebuilt from a parts store, but I know the quality is there and it is tested when finished.