UAW basically lets US auto industry collapse!!

[AndyMA]

"Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said the sticking point was the United Auto Workers' refusal to set a "date certain" to put employees at U.S. auto manufacturers at "parity pay" with U.S. employees at foreign automakers in the United States.
Currently, analysts estimate the union workers at U.S. automakers make about $3 to $4 per hour more than the non-union U.S. employees of foreign automakers like Toyota and Honda, according to the Center for Automotive Research."

And just what are all these "union workers" going to do when they loose there jobs over a $ 4 / hour pay cut? Unions are a thing of the past.

Andy

 

[ultrarunner]

It's a tough situation and the times certainly are changing.

I'm near the NUMMI plant in Fremont CA and they announced line cutbacks and forced shutdowns... so far no lay-offs.

Eventually you change or you wither away. Seeing a lot of that with the Housing Meltdown...

I worked in a Union Shop for a period of time and it was an adjustment. The guys I worked with certainly were very qualified and well trained... I did have to make adjustments. Working in a Union Shop, I had to be careful not to do things above or below my classification.

 

[the_sandman_454]

The union may be part of the problem, but the executives and management shouldn't be ignored for their role they played. Poor/unpopular designs, bad investments, excessive compensation, etc. Some of the senators are being sort of hard on the union membership.

They've seen how things have gone for other unions, United/Delta airlines vs pilots and mechanics. Union makes concessions, executives get bonuses.

 

[mjncad]

Granted executive management deserves a lot of the blame as do the shareholders for putting unrealistic performance expectations on the companies; but when I heard the UAW essentially put the final monkey wrench in the works, I just shook my head at their stupidity.

Colorado is not infested with unions like the rust belt is, and my former line of work is not union organized except for Boeing. However, from what I have seen, unions breed high priced mediocrity.

I'm not looking forward to seeing what the stock market will do tomorrow as a result of this news.

 

[EX3200]

It's important to note that McConnell and many of the other Republican senators who are leading the opposition to any bailout of the Domestic auto industry are doing the bidding of foreign auto makers who have operations located in their states. They have subsidized the foreign manufacturers to the tune of $100k - $250k per job.

It's really a shame to see these senators who have wrapped themselves in the flag on so many occasions opposing the American worker in favor of foreign corporations.

 

[the_sandman_454]

Another thing is it's ironic that they give the $700B to the banking industry without major changes, yet won't make a loan to the Big 3.

The bigger sticking point there should have demanded at least a wholesale change of executives, severely limiting bonuses and so forth. I'm sure the UAW would have been much more likely to make concessions anyway if something like that happened, as a good faith type deal that they're not the only ones taking pay cuts, etc.

 

[jcmseven]

EX3200 and others,

It is true that many of the opposing senators have other interests such as recruiting foreign automakers to their states, but I see their point. Many of these companies seek to settle in areas where land is inexpensive and work (labor) costs are cheaper. Of course, they are going to offer incentives to such stable financial companies to settle there. The short term expense is going to be far outweighed by long-term benefit to their district. I do NOT see many foreign makers seeking to open unnumerable factories in areas currently heavily occupied by the "big three" on a widespread basis. These senators do not want to see monies procured by the government from taxpayers--some from their districts--fueling and supplementing their "competition". I can see their concern. To me, it is simple math: one cannot pay workers higher levels of pay and keep them on the dime for years after they have ceased offering any manufacturing benefit--and pay extensive benefits--in the current economy and have ANY hope of keeping afloat. The interesting observation, much like those dancing in the ballrooms as the Titanic went down, is that many leaders with the UAW seem to feel that sacrifice does not need to come from them to maintain viability. Nothing could be less true. As for the executives, while I do not condone paying someone handsomely will they pilot that same ship to the bottom, the "compensation" packages represent a fairly small amount of the total problem. Though to any of us these dollar amounts are staggering, to these companies they are minute and really equivalent to borrowing a quarter to put into a bubble gum machine--it is not going to save them.

John M

 

[coobie]

"Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said the sticking point was the United Auto Workers' refusal to set a "date certain" to put employees at U.S. auto manufacturers at "parity pay" with U.S. employees at foreign automakers in the United States.
Currently, analysts estimate the union workers at U.S. automakers make about $3 to $4 per hour more than the non-union U.S. employees of foreign automakers like Toyota and Honda, according to the Center for Automotive Research."

And just what are all these "union workers" going to do when they loose there jobs over a $ 4 / hour pay cut? Unions are a thing of the past.

Andy

What are all the CEO,s& VP,s going to do when they are not making millions of $$ and flying around free on company jets.DON,T just blame the union members.Why are folks not worried about giving the crooked banks(aig,bear sterns, and so on) $700 billion without any hearings?Why are they not grilled in front of Millions on national TV?My guess that they would find half of the folks in the senate & house with dirt on there hands and be exposed also.PS.I am one of them lazy union workers (32 years IBEW)electric lineman,that have fought for a safe work place,health care for or familes,pensions,sick days,paid vactions.I have also worked my lazy butt off 18-20 hour shifts in the worst weather conditions that you can imagine while you were home sleeping in bed nice and warm.coobie

 

[riptides]

I heard a year to do parity pay.

But like all media stories, I am sure that the whole story on the collapse of the talks has yet to be heard.

Come on, think about it.... the Union understands what is going on in the economy and their company. They are not trying to go out of work. What benefit does going bankrupt serve them?

There must be something we have not been told yet.

 

[jcmseven]

Coobie,

Although I know you were responding primarily to Andy; I for one, feel your individual circumstance is quite different from that going on right now. The domestic automakers' problem is obviously multi-factorial, starting at the top. These liabilities have been very well documented in the media and I shall not go over them again. The most concerning thing to me is that the car makers simply cannot sell enough product to offset the cost to them of personnel that are no longer making things. They have not thought out upfitting of equipment and streamlining processes, and sadly the UAW honchos seem to have greatly contributed to this problem. As usual in the media, sensationalism reigns supreme: although the CEO's extravagance is a bit nauseating to me also, it represents a small fraction monetarily of the problem (and the bailout). As I recall, with the ORIGINAL 700 (actually 760--they added just two times what the automakers are requesting and little was said of it) billion dollar bank bailout proposal (the one that did not pass)--in the initial proposal the "CEO compensation" package amount was around 1/500th of a percent of the entire package. While I think that someone who manages a business so poorly should not get anything like this, in the overall financial scheme it is a negligible amount. Although the percentages here might be different (I do not know that anyone knows for sure), compared to long-standing "dead costs" it is a small amount. I should also note on a personal level that about two months ago I contacted a dealer about potentially buying TWO fairly expensive vehicles that they had on their lot, one for my wife and one for me. We have excellent credit and thankfully a solid income in these times. I could have paid cash for one vehicle and would have probably financed the other for a small amount only. After three calls and a pleasant test drive, the sales person never called back to finalize things. I ultimately decided (the dealer did not know this) not to trade but just yesterday received a call back asking if I was still interested in the vehicles. When asked why they did not contact us sooner, the only reply was it was "lost in the shuffle." This dealer lost nearly $100,000 in sales due to poor follow up and marginal customer service. To me, this is one part of the problem in a nutshell and likely spells the end of the big three as we know them.

John M