Used Farm Pro 2420 for the first time...questions

joerocker · Nov 7, 2005

I finally got around to using my new tractor today. I went around and made sure everything was tight, all the places that needed fluids had it (it's nice that they painted all the fluid fill/check places red), and cranked her up. Started without a hitch, idles a little rough but then again this is the only deisel I've ever owned.

Everything went fine. My fuel gauge doesn't work, I'll look at the wiring later. I cut about 5 acres and put 4 hours on the tractor. It's set kind of low and digs into the ground when the hydraulics are all the way down, I'm guessing I tighten up the two upper links to raise it, I'll do that tomorrow too. Other than that, it went flawlessly. When cutting grass I run it at 1700-1800 RPM in Hi, HI, 1st. Is that OK? It seems to like it and only occasionally grunts a bit. The foot throttle comes in handy and I've learned to give it some gas before I get to a tougher spot. The steering is pretty easy for non-power.

All in all, NICE tractor!

Tomorrow I'll be switching to a boxblade to do some scraping and leveling. Any tips?

Also, the manual says break in is EITHER 10 hours UNLOADED or 31 hours loaded. Am I reading that right? What exactly IS the difference? Bottom line, I'm asking WHEN should I change all the fluids/filters?

Thanks guys for your help in deciding on a tractor...

greg_g · Nov 7, 2005

Your tach should have a green band on it, which indicates the correct RPM range to use for PTO-driven implements. I'm thinking you're probably doggin' the mower down at 1800

Conventional wisdom suggests changing ALL fluids/filters - flushing as required - before you ever use the tractor. Don't forget the hydraulic suction filter. Consider what you put in as your break-in fluids. Work the tractor for about 50 hours, then change ALL fluids/filters again. You can tell by what comes out whether or not you want to flush again. After that, you can go by the manufacturer's fluid change recommendations - and flushing should hopefully not be required again.

Fuel gauge problem is usually a loose ground wire.

Minimum TPH height is set with the vertical stabilizer links. They're the turnbuckle looking things that connect the lower lift arms with the hydraulic lift arms. After that, you control height with the lever alongside the seat. Set the stops on the lift lever linkage so you don't raise the hydraulic arms too high - or else you'll ruin the lift cylinder seals.

//greg//

OKnewguy · Nov 7, 2005

As you have probably read, just make sure and vary your rpms to help brake it in. I have a jinma 224. This size of tractor has worked out great, and I expect you will love yours.
Congrats on the new tractor.
DAve

bluechip · Nov 7, 2005

There should be a stop on the rod that moves the lift lever for the 3 point back to the middle (hold) position. You can just set it so that the 3 point will not drop too low, realistically with a box blade, you will beconstantly raising and lowering, but with the mower, being able to drop back down to appx the same height is nice. it is a round bushing with a thumb screw to hold it in place.

Soundguy · Nov 8, 2005

( Set the stops on the lift lever linkage so you don't raise the hydraulic arms too high - or else you'll ruin the lift cylinder seals.
)

Greg.. did I read this right? Are you saying that the 3pt lift piston isn't max travel safe?? That is, you can make the lift piston exit the lift cyl some and damage the orings?

Do they not have any feedback mechanisim internal to the lift to limit max piston travel??

( I sure hope I read that wrong, as Ford had this back in 1939 /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif )

Soundguy

bluechip · Nov 8, 2005

Chris,
there is a characteristic of Jinma 200 lift boxes (not 300 series or KAMAs) where if the stop is not set correctly (the stop being a pair of jam nuts on a threaded rod) for maximum desired lift, the piston can overexted, allowing the O ring to go past the end of the cylinder, when it goes back when the lift is lowered, it will usually shear the O ring. There is a stop designed into the assembly by way of a cast protrusion on the rear plate that would provide a positive stop for the piston, but I suspect that years of use of the patterns and perhaps some changes made to the piston design have left this stop too short to do the job it was intended. It is not a problem if the jam nuts are not left too far out on the end of the control rod. A better prenetion may be to build up the stop on the rear cover.

There is also a settable stop on the control rod to kick the lever out (mechanically forces the lever back to the netural or hold position, remember the 200 series Jinma does not have poistional control of the 3 point).

Soundguy · Nov 8, 2005

( plate that would provide a positive stop for the piston, but I suspect that years of use of the patterns and perhaps some changes made to the piston design have left this stop too short to do the job it was intended. It is not a problem if the jam nuts are not left too far out on the end of the control rod. A better prenetion may be to build up the stop on the rear cover.
)

Yikes /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif None of those systems sounds 'great'. The 'positive' stop you mention sounds like the piston is deadheading against a casting member.. thus relying onthe relief in the system for safety. That's not awesome either... a faulty relief and you could have a cracked top cover.

I much prefer the feedback design that has been in use for 66 years by ford. The lift control ( hytrol handle ) is connected thru mechanical linkages under the lift cover.. these mechanical linkages manipulate the control valve for the 3pt. As the piston reaches it's max safe travel, there is a feeler that the piston moves, and this feeler then manipulates the linkage that the hytrol handle is connected to, and backs off on the control valve. The hytrol handle is not 'pushed' back.. it stays wherever you put it. This is for circuit regenertion.. i fthe lift piston or something inthe system leaks.. then the piston moves back into the cylinder as the oilleaks.. this in turn releases pressure on the 'feeler' and that in turn allows the control valve to open a tad to regenerate the circuit.

Wonderfull design... and the basis for most modern 3pt systems ( ferguson system )...

I really have to say.. the hyd setup on that unit is lackluster... I'm actually a bit surprised... the design for the rest of the machine seems 'sturdy', even if older technology..

Soundguy

bluechip · Nov 8, 2005

Chris,
Ford has a position control type system. The Jinma 200 series does not, it is operated by a valve you simply ask it to lift or you ask it to lower, the longer you hold the valve the further it goes sort of like the valves on the loader. You HAVE to have a mechanical stop somewhere.

The system is very reliable if used properly (the stop on the rod will close the valve before it hits the solid stop every time if it is adjusted properly).

I had a 9N and the darn thing would all by itself lift the brush hog up, it even cut the driveshaft in half after a while so it is not a perfect design either.

KAMA tractors and 200 series JInma tractors use position and draft control (2 levers) which operates more like what you are used to.

Soundguy · Nov 8, 2005

( I had a 9N and the darn thing would all by itself lift the brush hog up, it even cut the driveshaft in half after a while so it is not a perfect design either. )

Actually.. it was working fine.. you had the (draft) setting too sensitive onthe hytrol handle....as the 9n / 2n was (constant) draft mode. There were position control jigs that could be fit to it to make it position control and draft control.. much like the the modifications on the 8n.

You could also use limit chains.., or even get real inventive and fiddle with the draft plunger to prevent it from sending draft response to the pump control valve, and thus use the 9n / 2n hyds as position control. Many a 9n and 2n are working that way right now, if the draft plunger, yoke and draft spring are rusted up tight.

Soundguy

bluechip · Nov 8, 2005

strange, usually draft control only raises a bit, this thing would go all the way up, made a heck of a racket. then there was the brush hog pushing the whole tractor even when you step on the clutch.... another "less than awesome" bit of design work requiring additional overrunning clutch. then there were those nasty points that would stick and corrode, whose Idea was it to put the distributor in between the engine and the radiator anyway? talk about "Awesome design"... I fixed it though, sold the rusty hulk.

So there you go, it is very easy to be overly critical. These tractors are what they are, no more, no less.

Truth be told, I like old ford tractors, I've had several 8Ns, even a couple good ones one even had the distributor where it could be serviced. We are fixing up a jubilee that we took in trade last year. ON top of that we sell FARMTRACs which are about as Ford as you can get in a new tractor these days. So I don't condemn ford for their weaknesses, but they put a lot of people on tractors in their day and I'm not trying to start an argument, just trying to make a point about being overly critical. We posted the way it works, explained the (potential) problem and how to avoid it, IMHO there is not much to be gained by taking the attitude that ford had that beat 66 years ago.. In fact I have replaced many old fords with Jinma/farm pro tractors and everyone likes the Jinma better, better fuel economy, 2 stage clutch, you can raise the lift with your foot on the clutch even.

Again it works, if you set the stops correctly it will work a very long time. no added shims, no chains, no hassel.

bluechip · Nov 8, 2005

JOe,

The fuel gage is usually a bad or missing ground.

JINMA224XR · Nov 8, 2005

All in all, NICE tractor!

Tomorrow I'll be switching to a boxblade to do some scraping and leveling. Any tips?

Also, the manual says break in is EITHER 10 hours UNLOADED or 31 hours loaded. Am I reading that right? What exactly IS the difference? Bottom line, I'm asking WHEN should I change all the fluids/filters?


Hey Joe,

Glad to hear that you are enjoying your new tractor.

My suggestion is to follow GregG's advice on fluid change and flushing.

On the boxblading, it will take a little time to learn about how much angle to set the box blade at for moving dirt, gravel, etc. And you may have to lock the differential for extra pulling power, but you'll have to unlock the differential to be able to turn the tractor.

After you have moved the majority of the material that you want to fill in holes, etc. You can adjust the box blade upwards in front, so that it only is hitting on the rear portion of your box blade to do the final smoothing and leveling. Use your hydralic lever to just barely let the blade drag and it will do a very nice job of final smoothing and leveling.

Once again, enjoy, using your new tractor, it can become one of your very best friends, and it will be waiting for you, where you parked it last. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Get your tractors running &
Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

JINMA224XR · Nov 8, 2005

I really have to say.. the hyd setup on that unit is lackluster... I'm actually a bit surprised... the design for the rest of the machine seems 'sturdy', even if older technology..

Soundguy 

Hey Chris,

It is un SportmansLike to Rain On Anothers Parade. Getting a new tractor is an adventure and everybody always remembers their very first Tractor. Tractor Ownership and Operation, can be one of the most rewarding and pleasurable experiences that one will have in this life.

Try not to worry about the hydralics too much Chris, as the hydralics on my 224 has been working very nicely for 130 hours, and Dick/Thingy has about 500 hours on his 254 and his hydralics are also doing fine.

We all know that you are Jittery about these Chinese Tractors, but try not to worry Chris, as we also know that you really do want one.

It's normal to get the Jitters a little bit, before you actually part with some of your Money's, but it will be ok, and we will hold your hand and help you with your New Chinese Tractor.

No Tractor is perfect and in the final end, it is just a crap shoot. Now you could really help us all out, if you could give us your professional opinions about these Chinese Tractors from an OWNERS Point of View.

We are all standing around the table now Chris, and it is your turn. Throw the dice.

And May Good Fortune, Go Your Way. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Get your tractors running &
Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

bruce1966us · Nov 8, 2005

Love that post Joe!

Soundguy · Nov 9, 2005

( strange, usually draft control only raises a bit )

It raises proportionaly based on how sensitive you have the draft sensing hytrol handle set. Remember.. the 9n was not designed with a rotary mower in mind. The weight of the mower on the draft 3pt was a ballancing act at best.. the slighetest variation in ground would make minor shock loads onthe 3pt.. the draft hyds interpreted this as more draft on t he lift, and then it would in turn lift the mower. An out of adjustment quadrant and internal linkage greatly exagerated this to the point that you only had float and transport mode. The lift is actually simple to adjust. Takes about 15 minutes of work.. minus pulling the top cover.. also takes a special jig that is no longer available by NH.. but is available aftermarket. My -well maintained and serviced- 2n has a correctly functioning lift. Like I said also.. there were position control feedback external add on parts to make the ferguson lift system function like a real position control. The most popular one was the 'fergy positioner'. There are new aftermarket units called the 'zane thang' made by a retired ford mechanic named zane sherman.

( then there was the brush hog pushing the whole tractor even when you step on the clutch.... another "less than awesome" bit of design work requiring additional overrunning clutch )

Please.. give me a break... 66 years ago.. the single plate foot operated clutch wasn't even in complete use by all tractor manufacturers.. many still had hand clutches for pete's sake.. My 1950 JD-B has a hand clutch...

In any case.. live pto was not common untill the 50's.. though there were aftermarket units to correct that. Dearborn made a 'live pto' that fit the 8n and NAA.. was more or less a hyd clutch pack... In 55 a 2 stage clutch became standard on all X6X models.. and anything with an SOS tranny with a model number in the X7X or higher sos variants had independent pto. Remember.. we are comparing 66 year old technology to current technology.. so the comment of you throwing back the 'awesome design' based on a tractor having 2stage clutch in the here and now, vs a design from 66 years ago is laughable.. heck.. oil filters were just becoming available on many tractor engines inthe late 30's.. and those were not even full flow units. Your comparison is about as good as compairing pre- ww2 meds with current meds.. especially the lack of good antibiotics..etc...

And.. there are plenty of more modern tractors that still are non live pto...years down the line..

( then there were those nasty points that would stick and corrode )

Again.. a maintenance and care issue.

My 2n is stillont he same set of points I purchased it with..no adjustments.. My cub is on the same set of points i purchased it with.. I have honed then once. My 8nis ont he same set of points I purchased it with.. they have been honed once. my NAA is on the same set of points I purchased it with.. no adjustments. My 660 is still ont he same set of points I purchased it with. they have been honed once. My allis G is on the same set of points I purchased it with, and per the seller, they are from when he overhauled the engine in 1991, and have only been honed and adjusted.. never replaced. My JD-B magneto has only had 2 sets of points.. one was the original.. the other was put in by the original owner a year before he sold it to me...

Most problems I see with points come from ham handed non-mechanics that use dirt feeler gauges, overtighten hold down screws.. don't replace dust caps, intorduce contaminants into the distribuitor body, and who don't properly lube the leading edge of the rubbing block, thus leading to fast wearing lobes and then fast wearing rubbing blocks and rapidly changing points gaps which eventually close up, pit arc and burn. Leaving the ole' ignition switch on allnight isn't too friendly to the points either..

Next failure is the 'sandpaper' or worse yet 'emory cloth' used to file points. Heck.. even the average flat file is not suitable to 'dress' or 'hone' points There is a specific ignition file that is suitable for dressing points... it should be kept clean and you should always keep a seperate feeler gauge for points work only.

I see people complain about points all the time. i simply don't see the problems.. except for lack of maintenance.. or lack of understanding. I live in hot humid rainy florida. My points see the worst of it ... still.. no problems.
Next set of faults comes from the same non-mechanics who don't know how to properly match system primary current and primary resistance thru the use of the correct ballast resistor if needed.

My favorite quote on the issue of electronic ignition vs breaker ignition was that when your ignition module failed out in the middle of no where..you walked home. When your points burnt out inthe middle of no where..a fingernail file.. you might still get you home...

( whose Idea was it to put the distributor in between the engine and the radiator anyway? talk about "Awesome design.... I've had several 8Ns, even a couple good ones one even had the distributor where it could be serviced )

I actually prefer the front mount distribuitor. I find it WAY easier to service than the side mounts. How many other tractors do you know where you can remove the distribuitor and work on it inthe comfort of your barn or garage and then pop it back on and be 100% certain that it was backin right ever time. The front mount distrib was held on by 2 bolts.. it was about a 15 minute job to pull the distrib change the points out, gap them.. then static time it with a straight edge using the manual, and then reinstall it.. that included a cup of coffee and the walk to and from the barn. The distrib was driven by an offset tang off the cam.. it only went back in 1 way.. no way to install it out of time unless you used a hammer. Can't do that with a sidemount by any stretch of the imagination. So yes.. i would call that 'awesome design'.. cause who likes to set there and re-time a tractor!

( just trying to make a point about being overly critical )

i don't feel I was being overly critical. i feel the 3pt design in question is overly simple.. to the point that it resembles much more like a retrofitted 3pt setup usingn a remote style spool control hooked to a cylinder lifting the 3pt..( kinda like 3pt conversions for non 3pt tractors..) I'm sure cost was a factor inthe complexity.. or lacktherof.

( In fact I have replaced many old fords with Jinma/farm pro tractors and everyone likes the Jinma better, better fuel economy, 2 stage clutch, you can raise the lift with your foot on the clutch even.
)

late 52 corrected the non live hyd issue.. late 54 corrected the 2 stage clutch issue enmasse., as an option,. though as imentioned.. a live clutch addition was available for the 8n.

( Again it works, if you set the stops correctly )

I guess that is the part I have the issue with. The fact that you have to set the stops in the first place...In retrospect... I guess that's part of the tradeoff.. part and parcel I guess.. more of a hands on unit.. big savings at the pocket book.

Soundguy

Soundguy · Nov 9, 2005

( It is un SportmansLike to Rain On Anothers Parade )

I wasn't. i was making a comment about a particular system on a particular tractor.

I see that it has also been noted that this system in question is not on all jinma's.. just some units. I wasn't targeting anybody specifically.

( It is un SportmansLike to Rain On Anothers Parade )

As I've said before.. .. if you guys are gona play the 'only owner's comments are prefered' card.. you really should have the forum restricted to owners only.. that way you won't be bothered by questions from potential buyers.. or comments from the gallery.

I'd have to say that antique tractors, when viewed / reviewed as 'viable' alternatives for a working tractor.. take much more of a verbal beating than the chinese tractors.. yet.. we antique owners don't whip out many 'crusades' to protectt he honr of our old iron.. we merely point out the factual capabilities of it.. and then move on...however it is well known, especially from viewing the archives, here, that many tirades can be traced back to certain other tractor species... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

As wel all know.. when it comes down to dollar per hp.. the best deals are on chinese hp, and antique hp.

Chinese gets the 'new, warranty, and modern features' trump cards. Antique comes in pretty much only with 'time tested'. parts availability is probably in the same general category for both.. depending ont he part and the tractor in question.

In other words.. if ya can't stomach a few questions? why show up to play ball? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

besides.. it's all about having fun and getting work done right? doesn't matter if yours burns rice and mine runs on TVO /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Soundguy

greg_g · Nov 9, 2005

( It raises proportionaly based on how sensitive you have the draft sensing hytrol handle set. )

Hmmmm, not mine. Neither the YM240 or JM254s had draft control. But the KAMA does. Once the down-force exerted by the implement exceeds the pressure level set by the draft handle, the lift arms just return to the level set by the lift handle position. Now if you hit or snagged something, that might make the position control might temporarily over compensate, but it should quickly settle out to the preset lift position.

( Remember.. we are comparing 66 year old technology to current technology.)
No actually, we're not. You seem to have overlooked the hundred-some times it's been qualified to potential buyers that these tractors are still using 50 year old design concepts. That's what makes them so comparatively easy to work on by us lesser mechanics.

( i don't feel I was being overly critical.)

From my perspective, that seems to be among the things you do best.

( I guess that is the part I have the issue with. The fact that you have to set the stops in the first place...In retrospect... I guess that's part of the tradeoff.. part and parcel I guess.. more of a hands on unit.. big savings at the pocket book.)

Hurrah ! But boy was that a long road to the punchline. Even the Jinma stops themselves are no guarantee, they rely on thumbscrew friction. They either worked loose by themselves, or rusted tight so you couldn't adjustem without a pliers - didn't seem to be much middle ground. I ended up keeping the thumbscrew stops honest with a light piece of chain functioning as an upper arm travel stop.

//greg//

Soundguy · Nov 9, 2005

( Hmmmm, not mine. Neither the YM240 or JM254s had draft control. But the KAMA does. Once the down-force exerted by the implement exceeds the pressure level set by the draft handle, the lift arms just return to the level set by the lift handle position )

I'm not familiar with the draft mechanism on the kama.. so can't comment on it there.

As for the ford. The 9n and 2n draft mechanism really didn't give you any exact position control. once the lift is lifted up.. it absolutely was not guaranteed to go back the same spot.. even if the hytrol handle is inthe same place. Again.. the draft hyds of the 9n / 2n was not designed for a load like a mower in a non ground engaging situation. The draft settings get dicey as the mower is not a 'constant' draft load.. it is a shock load.. and every movement of the mower can make the lift move in response.. it's almost too ligt a draft.. and the hytrol is being sdet too sensitive. In comparison.. if that was a chissle plow, you would have the hytrol set much lower.. toward the bottom of the quadrant.. thus making it less sensitive.. less reactive.. less of a lift when an obstacle is encountered.. more of a chance to be back inthe correct position after passing the obstacle just for the fact that plows work with a sucking action.. they actually pull themselves into the ground like a wedge.. the mower just sets and hangs there.. nothing is pulling it back down..

( Remember.. we are comparing 66 year old technology to current technology.)
No actually, we're not. You seem to have overlooked the hundred-some times it's been qualified to potential buyers that these tractors are still using 50 year old design concepts )

IMHO.. if they were using old technology.. they should have copied something a tad more reliable.. or at least more sophisticated. As far as i can tell this lift system in question most closely resembles add on 3pt system for tractors that had no built in lift.. I.E. ones that used simple spool controls to control the piston.. etc.. rather than the draft sensing hyds and control valve limited position control setups of the original ferguson type systems.

In any case.. i wasn't refering to the hyds in that comment.. but rather the comparison of the other features that were not .. vs 'common' features nowadays.

( From my perspective, that seems to be among the things you do best.
)

Haha /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif That's the best case of the pot calling the kettle black I've ever seen here on TBN. I almost laughed so hard I spilt my coffee... Good one! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

( Even the Jinma stops themselves are no guarantee, they rely on thumbscrew friction )

That's the whole point of my entire comment.. the stop system is so underdesigned that it invites problems.

The fact that they work loose.. rust easilly.. rely on thumbscrew friction.. etc.. all seems like they could have put another 10$ in the engineering and made something that was reliably intrnally limited. So far I've never worked on, or heard of a failure of a ford / ferguson style 3pt piston causing damage because it ran past max travel, and the internal linkage did not shut down the control or unloading valve. For that fact.. I've never heard of any 3pt piston failures from max travel issues on ANY brand save the ones mentioned right here. Methinks this is directly related to design setup and realitive sophistication and implementation. I'm not saying that no other 3pt systems have ever failed in this way.. just none has ever run by my eyes & ears .. etc.

Soundguy

JINMA224XR · Nov 9, 2005

As wel all know.. when it comes down to dollar per hp.. the best deals are on chinese hp 

Hey Chris,

If you would ever get some of that Chinese Oil, Tween your Fingers, Your Eyes might open wider and see the world in a different Light. Heck, you might even start listening to Oriental Music. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

On my system, there are 2 threaded nuts, on the Lifting Lever, that prevents the Hydralics from lifting too high. It seems to work fine, but I can see, that if something were to cause the implement to continue to rise upwards, that damage could occur. such as pushing something, while in reverse and if the object being pushed caused the 3ph to rise upwards past the lift limits. Not sure, but I suspect that it might cause damage.

Get your tractors running &
Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

bluechip · Nov 9, 2005

fancier designs cost more and are readily available on other brands of tractors. The 200 series lift is simple, easy to understand stays where you left it provided it is functioning correctly. The KAMA and JINMA 300/400 series and others use a two handle quadrant, one for position control and one to set the draft allowance. You do not get state of the art with any Chinese tractor that I am familiar with. You do get more lb for dollar or bank for buck or whatever than any other new tractor alternative, we can compare new to used till our fingers fall off and not accomplish much, eventually we will start to see used chinese tractors and I expect them to be less expensive than other used tractors are. Its the Price/performance ratio, and the chinese win because the price more than offsets any less than fantastic engineering that was used, they are simple and they do work, I would estimate there are well over 20,000 chinese tractors in USA by now (probably way more as I am guessing HOmier/Farm Pro alone at more than 10,000 by now and when you add the others like Northern, Tractor king, and the hundreds of smaller importers.) There is no doubt that people are seeing a value for the money invested admittedly few are using for plowing using draft control.