want to build a freeze resistant building, IDEAS?

[BHD]

I want to build a building at least 30 foot wide, and it may in time extend to 90 feet, long, currently the idea would be to build most likely a 30 by 30 foot building,

my thoughts are to build a bunker, or potato cellar type building, dig down about 4 feet, and then berm the walls with the dirt removed,,

currently thinking of using the foam forms (stack like lego) and fill with concrete and rebar, for the walls, stucco the exterior and most likely the inside as well,

roof could be convental with at least 6 to 8 inches of insulation, and most like a tin sheet metal roof,

my desire is to make a building that will not freeze int he winter and maintain some reasonable temperatures in the summertime,

the reason is to be able to keep water flowing with out additional heat,

may have some solar "windows" for some additional heat, for winter time, and for natural light, the original idea is some what from this site, https://greenhouseinthesnow.com/

then I got thinking about potato cellars, File:Old Potato Cellars near Shelley, Idaho.jpeg - Wikipedia

I would prefer the sod covered roof, but it would take a lot of extra framing ot support the roof,

thought or ideas,

 

[EddieWalker]

How far down does your ground freeze during the coldest period of winter? This depth will give you an idea of how much soil you will need to avoid freezing inside your building.

 

[jfh28]

that was my first thought too....whats your frost line......and even more importantly what are your plans on using the building......30x90 suggests you will need to move equipment in and out which means the building would be buried on three sides but not on the fourth......and thats the side where you will get all your heat loss which defeats burying it in the first place.....especially if you open an overhead door to get a tractor in or out which will allow the outdoor temperature to become the new indoor temperature without a heat source......also 6-8 of roof insulation won't be enough....check with your local building department to find out what's the minimum r value for roofs in your area......also watch for any sources of infiltration......its one of the largest areas for losing heat in a building....so each intersection, door, window is a potential weak point....the canadian home builders association use to put out a manual for constructing energy efficient buildings that was full of great construction details that you might find useful.......Jack

 

[BHD]

I have a number of water lines that about 3' deep and have not ever had them freeze, the maps say 45" deep, I am not saying it can not get to 45" but I have been here over 60 years, and have no evidence of it,

one thing many times were so dry that there is no moisture to freeze but the top foot or so,

and may consider some solar heat panels as well, if it would be help full,

I found this drawing of a potato shed (1947) for North Dakota or that is where it was released,
https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/aben-plans/5643.pdf
the design would be something I would consider, with some enhancements and no air ducking system build itn the floor,

I like the look and and having the upper floor,

the main purpose would be to keep water from animals waterers from freezing up.

 

[ovrszd]

What's the R value of the foam forms?

6-8" of roof insulation isn't going to help much. At 2.5 R value per inch with fiberglass you only have 15-20 R value. Needs to be 3 times that much.

Lastly, lot of difference in Eastern Colorado
Can you be more specific? How about wind? How much snowfall?

 

[zzvyb6]

My barn was built by a fellow who owned a concrete company. So, very thick foundation down 5'. Concrete block walls for outside and all the stall walls inside and concrete floor in main isle way. Sawdust stall floors. (I make my own using a wood chipper from pine bows and discarded Christmas trees collected from around the neighborhood. I have sealed the first floor with insulated rollup doors on both ends. A regular 36" passage door for people to use into an office area and then on into the animal area. Double pane windows in the stalls. It takes just about all Winter to get below 40 degrees inside if we observe thoughtful entry and exit for us and the horses. On 'warm' winter sunny days, I circulate hay mow forced air down to the 1st floor. In summer, it takes just about all Summer to get above 75 in there as the concrete mass absorbs a lot of the heat during the day. Screens and occasionally fan forced air movement lowers hay mow air temps. The stairwell from 1st to 2nd floor is closed off to prevent leakage of cold air downward to the first floor. The upstairs has 2 door-walls with sliding glass and sliding screen parts. There has never never been a frozen water line or a stall water bucket in there. The ONLY issue is in Spring when the colder concrete walls in the aisleway create dew forming from warm air entering when we open it up on a nice day.

In windy winter weather, the 3 horses were kept inside and they give off a LOT of heat (and moisture BTW. I can't store hay above the hosr stalls because of the moisture coming up from below). We have electric heat in the tack room where the water lines come up from below ground, but never have needed it.

 

[4570Man]

I’m a big fan of concrete buildings especially with a concrete roof for staying cool in the summer. They also retain cold in the winter so I think you’d have to have a heat source. If it was completely buried you might keep it warm enough but that seems like a lot of expense and water problems to avoid a heat bill. My 30x40 shop stays heated to 45 in the winter and it doesn’t usually cost more than $20 a month.

 

[ovrszd]

My barn was built by a fellow who owned a concrete company. So, very thick foundation down 5'. Concrete block walls for outside and all the stall walls inside and concrete floor in main isle way. Sawdust stall floors. (I make my own using a wood chipper from pine bows and discarded Christmas trees collected from around the neighborhood. I have sealed the first floor with insulated rollup doors on both ends. A regular 36" passage door for people to use into an office area and then on into the animal area. Double pane windows in the stalls. It takes just about all Winter to get below 40 degrees inside if we observe thoughtful entry and exit for us and the horses. On 'warm' winter sunny days, I circulate hay mow forced air down to the 1st floor. In summer, it takes just about all Summer to get above 75 in there as the concrete mass absorbs a lot of the heat during the day. Screens and occasionally fan forced air movement lowers hay mow air temps. The stairwell from 1st to 2nd floor is closed off to prevent leakage of cold air downward to the first floor. The upstairs has 2 door-walls with sliding glass and sliding screen parts. There has never never been a frozen water line or a stall water bucket in there. The ONLY issue is in Spring when the colder concrete walls in the aisleway create dew forming from warm air entering when we open it up on a nice day.

In windy winter weather, the 3 horses were kept inside and they give off a LOT of heat (and moisture BTW. I can't store hay above the hosr stalls because of the moisture coming up from below). We have electric heat in the tack room where the water lines come up from below ground, but never have needed it.

I'm not a horse guy so be patient with me.... how many BTUs of heat does a horse put out??

 

[ovrszd]

I’m a big fan of concrete buildings especially with a concrete roof for staying cool in the summer. They also retain cold in the winter so I think you’d have to have a heat source. If it was completely buried you might keep it warm enough but that seems like a lot of expense and water problems to avoid a heat bill. My 30x40 shop stays heated to 45 in the winter and it doesn’t usually cost more than $20 a month.

I have a philosophy about heating a building.

Build a good building and it doesn't matter what you heat it with.

Build a bad building and it doesn't matter what you heat it with.

 

[BHD]

What's the R value of the foam forms?

6-8" of roof insulation isn't going to help much. At 2.5 R value per inch with fiberglass you only have 15-20 R value. Needs to be 3 times that much.

Lastly, lot of difference in Eastern Colorado
Can you be more specific? How about wind? How much snowfall?

lots of wind, a windless day is rare,
little snow (normal). the normal is usually just a few inches at at time,

no forms selected yet, thus no info on R value, buts looks like they range from R22 on up,