Water-stove vs. Heat pump vs. Propane

[Sigarms]

I'm very happy and was trying to share my experience I had.

Understood. A 18 SEER (two stage I assume) heat pump system with a 95% variable speed constant torque or constant air flow blower motor is one of the best heat pump systems you can buy IMO.

In my attic, I replaced my straight gas / AC system with a heat pump and 80% gas furnace(in attic) combo AKA dual fuel system and saved 30% on my LP usage that year because I wasn't running the gas furnace for heat when it was 65F or lower using that expensive (in my parts) LP.

It only makes sense IMO if you live in a cold area to dual fuel the system, I just don't know the actual math.

 

[Ford850]

This is SO location dependent.
If the OP could say WHERE and his cost of electricity it would make it so much easier to advise.
For example my house in Mississippi requires little heat and electricity is $0.098/kWh.

The OP's first post said "in NC mountains".

 

[Root Cause]

This is SO location dependent.
If the OP could say WHERE and his cost of electricity it would make it so much easier to advise.
For example my house in Mississippi requires little heat and electricity is $0.098/kWh.

Once again, mountains in NC. In more detail, frequently 90 in summer months and typically in 20's in winter at night. Rarely but it does happen we will hit zero degrees. So yes, I will have A/C both on main floor and basement. thanks for asking.

 

[Oaktree]

I never saw the appeal of the outside wood furnaces. WAY too costly. And if the chimney is done right, there is never an issue of smoke inside. I bring a little load of wood in daily so no huge pile in the basement.

As far as I can see, the only advantage to outside wood furnaces is that it's cleaner...no fine dust everywhere from the ash, no tracking in woodchips, no smoke inside from when you forget to open the damper, etc. and the fact that they can be integrated into existing FHW or FHA systems. They use a lot more wood than a woodstove, and don't do much good if the power goes out.

Newer heat pumps function much, much better in the cold than models even five years ago. For some models, supplemental heat does not come on until -40F.

I am VERY skeptical that a heat pump will work at -40. Even in the 20s they use electric resistance to heat with. I'm sure they're more efficient than they were in the past, but -40 is COLD!

As for the OP, one should work reasonably well given the mild winters of N.C.

 

[Randy Gann]

You want a “back up” that will ensure that your house stays warm if the power goes out for an extended period and you are away traveling. Wood is not the solution for that. The real issue then becomes electricity. For any fuel based heating system (oil or propane) you need power to fire the system. Assuming that you don’t have natural gas utility to connect to. Seems have 2 choices… heat pump with large enough propane fired generator to run the heat pump OR smaller generator and propane heat system. Either way you need a large enough propane tank to meet the needs and someone to check on the tank and have it refilled in your absence.

 

[Randy Gann]

I forgot to add in my previous reply. The generator will need to be an automatic system and not some portable manual hookup system like many of us on this forum use.

 

[Grumpycat]

Person I highly respect who designs gas controls said “propane consists of 5% of gas installs, 95% of gas fatalities.” The problem is how propane settles to the floor making it more difficult for humans to detect before the problem gets really bad. And something about the optimal air/fuel ratio is easily achieved at some height between floor and ceiling.

Facing similar decision I’m planning on geothermal heat pump with a propane fireplace. And portable kerosene heaters.

 

[lman]

The SEER rating made the heat pump qualify for their reduced rate program along with the ECM blower, not sure how they computed the math to arrive at the equivalent energy use of propane. Installer confirmed their estimate of propane equivalent so after two professionals told me the same thing I went with their advice. We love the system, house is always comfortable, no cold spots as ECM runs on low speed longer during cycles. Saved about 200 gallons of propane first year and got AC electric at 42% less per kwh rate. I'm very happy and was trying to share my experience I had.

It seems like your area would be more suited for a water source heat pump, since water source is better suited to cold temperatures. I have an all electric house with a closed loop Waterfurnace and we have never had the resistance back-up kick on. We've been down to -20. We have no propane back-up.

 

[dodge man]

I would also say take a hard look at one form or another if geothermal. We have underground loops. You can read about the benefits but when ours is running it uses about 2000 watts of power, that’s just a little more than a toaster. Ours is a forced air system and has electric coils as a backup. At such a low power usage a generator could easily power it.

The real advantage of geothermal is the tax breaks. Please don’t quote me on this but I thinks this is how it works. The tax break is 26%. So say your system is $20,000, which is about what ours cost installed. The tax break would be a little over $5000. This amount doesn’t come off your adjusted income but off your actual taxes, so if you pay $20k in taxes a year it would be $15k instead. We also pay about 3 cents less a kilowatt hour for the geo electricity.

Before we installed ours I did some research. For heat natural gas, wood and geo were about equal. This was also assuming you had to pay for wood. We didn’t have natural gas available and were using LP at the time. Out payoff for the geo vs LP was less than 5 years.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

For off-grid heat, I wish somebody would design a pellet stove/insert run by a Stirling cycle engine. It would still need a battery (or hand crank ) for startup, but the fire pot would easily run the auger and fan.