what on earth does electricity cost near you?

   / what on earth does electricity cost near you? #661  
Last bill here in NH on Eversource was $.23 per KWH, including delivery for 470 KWH $110 ($65 was delivery cost)

Our solar generates 8,000 KWH per year, and is on the garage - on a separate account, and we are grandfathered with net metering rate that matches the current electrical rate so we get paid same for over producing at $.23 per KWH. This covers 80% of our annual usage (house and outbuildings).

They changed the net metering for newer/recent solar installations so they don't get this same deal.
 
   / what on earth does electricity cost near you? #662  
20 cents per here in VT.

But I have a question.

A fellow I know recently put in a rather large solar array on his roof and also put in a pair of the Tesla uninterruptible battery power units. He says the Tesla units will power his home "normally" for one full day. More if he controls his water well pump.
The solar panel puts out three times the his consumption during peak hours of sunlight. Which I am advised is sold back to the power company at discount, and rectified over the annual billing.

BUT...

He can not use the Tesla panels to power his home when the main service is NOT interrupted! This just seems illogical.
The battery packs were paid for, the solar panels were paid for, but he is NOT PERMITTED to use the excess energy produced by the panels to cover the less productive hours of each day.

Seems like a plan to keep money flowing one way to me.
I have never heard of a power company regulating solar or battery use behind the meter for home use. Do you know who his power provider is?

I have seen commercial power contracts that did regulate time of load use, max size, power factor, and a variety of other arcane things, but never a battery use.

From the power utility perspective, they can't tell if today's solar power export is lower due battery charging, overcast, dust on the solar panels, someone is running the AC,... it is just a load.

Powerwalls are just big AC batteries. If he is producing more solar power than he is consuming, either in the house or charging the Powerwall(s), then his meter is going backwards, and he is only using power from solar directly. If he is using more than the solar produces, his Powerwalls can power some or all of the deficit (depends on his Powerwall settings, how big his load is, how many Powerwalls he has, and how much is left in the batteries). So, he could set his Powerwall reserve to be 100%, and they would never power his house except in outage. I know only a small number of folks who have theirs set that way, and most live in areas where there is little or no payment for power exports.

Powerwalls are installed with a control unit for for every 10 Powerwalls. That control unit is, amongst other things an automatic transfer switch that will switch the backed up loads to the Powerwall(s) in the event of an outage. The control unit can also shift the frequency to throttle the solar output if needed, when the house and battery load is smaller than the solar output. Not everyone has their whole house backed up, so during an outage, some loads may not be powered for some Powerwall owners.

Call me skeptical, but but I would love to learn more.

We have our Powerwalls set up to absorb excess solar during the low cost power portion of the day, and to export the solar during mid and high priced (peak) times of day, with the Powerwalls powering 100% of our usage during peak cost power. Depending on the time of year, we may be net exporters of power, or net importers, but in both cases, the solar plus the Powerwalls keep us from importing power during the peak times.

And best of all, the Powerwalls keep us running when the grid dies, which happens not infrequently here.

All the best,

Peter
 
   / what on earth does electricity cost near you? #663  
20 cents per here in VT.

But I have a question.

A fellow I know recently put in a rather large solar array on his roof and also put in a pair of the Tesla uninterruptible battery power units. He says the Tesla units will power his home "normally" for one full day. More if he controls his water well pump.
The solar panel puts out three times the his consumption during peak hours of sunlight. Which I am advised is sold back to the power company at discount, and rectified over the annual billing.

BUT...

He can not use the Tesla panels to power his home when the main service is NOT interrupted! This just seems illogical.
The battery packs were paid for, the solar panels were paid for, but he is NOT PERMITTED to use the excess energy produced by the panels to cover the less productive hours of each day.

Seems like a plan to keep money flowing one way to me.

I can see what he wants to do: Let’s say he’s using 50 amps of power.
1) He either wants the battery pack to supply (say) 25 amps and the utility to supply 25 amps, or some other mix, but not recharge the batteries from the utility (what would be the point?), only from the solar. Or,
2) The battery pack supplies the 50 amps until it is drained, but doesn’t recharge from the utility (again, what would be the point?), then system switches to utility power to supply the 50 amps. The battery pack would then sit there discharged until solar panels charge it.
…but the utility is disconnected in this scenario when using battery packs.

#1 would be a very super complicated and very expensive system.
#2 would be regular variety super complicated and expensive system.
 
   / what on earth does electricity cost near you? #664  
Very fond of my electric cooperative. My total rate - energy, distribution, taxes, etc. - varies from 10 cents to 13.5 cents per kwh over the year. My home is all-electric, a large ranch with a geothermal heat pump and lots of windows - and an annualized bill below $150 a month. Given the costs I see elsewhere, I can't complain. And we have brief outages of an hour or so once or twice a year... If that.
 
   / what on earth does electricity cost near you? #665  
I have never heard of a power company regulating solar or battery use behind the meter for home use. Do you know who his power provider is?
Peter,

Regulations at the state/local/power providers is one of the biggest issues with any renewable installation are the different rules, hoops, and loopholes to get through. The large solar/wind generators have a staff to deal with all this, and the homeowner either needs to go with a company that take care of this, or do extensive research and homework to fully understand the ROI.

In general the west (CA specifically) have tons more time, and history/regulations may favor the consumer more so than the power providers do here in the east, where it's only been in the last 5-8 years solar has taken off.
 
   / what on earth does electricity cost near you? #666  
Peter,

Regulations at the state/local/power providers is one of the biggest issues with any renewable installation are the different rules, hoops, and loopholes to get through. The large solar/wind generators have a staff to deal with all this, and the homeowner either needs to go with a company that take care of this, or do extensive research and homework to fully understand the ROI.

In general the west (CA specifically) have tons more time, and history/regulations may favor the consumer more so than the power providers do here in the east, where it's only been in the last 5-8 years solar has taken off.
Thanks! I was aware of that, and yes, I know that folks in the Eastern and Southern states have many more restrictions on solar than those of us out west. (My favorite is the Florida requirement for an additional million dollar insurance to insure the utility against damage caused by the home owner's solar.) Nevertheless, I hadn't heard of anything like @CalG's acquaintance's issue.

However, there are moves to restrict it even out West. Californians are currently fighting an attempt to force additional charges on pre-existing and future solar installations that would essentially charge solar owners for some or all of their solar production to make it "fair" to other electricity customers. It would also render the ROI on solar to be essentially infinite.

I know other Powerwall customers in New England who don't have the restriction that @CalG mentioned, which is why I was asking. I was curious.

All the best,

Peter
 
   / what on earth does electricity cost near you? #667  
The years of reasonable and honest profits are long gone. Greed is the name of the game now!
Not just that. Litigation has added to the cost enormously.
People were suing the electric company for not backing off electricity transferral during tinder season and others were suing for them backing off the output.
 
   / what on earth does electricity cost near you? #668  
A note regarding the power wall application.

The person mentioned is off on an extensive motor home tour. Out to the SouthWest, up to Oregon, and the return.
I won't get a chance to clarify any details for over a month. \

I was wondering if it had anything to do with "back up capacity" for the entire local grid. Is that a thing? I've heard more than one mention of such associated with the powerwall installations. A contractual "buffer" of sorts.
 
   / what on earth does electricity cost near you? #669  
However, there are moves to restrict it even out West. Californians are currently fighting an attempt to force additional charges on pre-existing and future solar installations that would essentially charge solar owners for some or all of their solar production to make it "fair" to other electricity customers. It would also render the ROI on solar to be essentially infinite.

All the best,

Peter
Moving The Goalposts - Nice ! Actually, that's more like taking down the goalposts and burning them.....

I've always been interested in off-grid, and as I'm far better at engineering than lawyering, moves like that ^ reinforce my thinking.....

Rgds, D.
 
   / what on earth does electricity cost near you? #670  
Moving The Goalposts - Nice ! Actually, that's more like taking down the goalposts and burning them.....

I've always been interested in off-grid, and as I'm far better at engineering than lawyering, moves like that ^ reinforce my thinking.....

Rgds, D.
Your response is pretty much spot on as to how solar owners here feel about it.

If I were doing it over again, I would certainly explore that option in detail; in particular whether it would be insurable, whether it was legally possible (many places require grid connections as part of local restrictions on building), and whether an off grid generator would be permitted as backup. The technical side is pretty straightforward these days, thankfully.

All the best,

Peter
 
 
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