When did John Deere begin the Right to Repair problems?

   #1  

FreeWulf

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I tried to search for this, but apparently I can't figure out how to ask the search engine my question.

What was the last year tractor that you could buy a JD tractor and not have these right to repair / software problems? Does it affect all tractors, or just the large ones? Is it just JD, or the other makes as well?

I'm looking at tractors from the 45 to 75HP range, and don't want to be surprised by getting locked out or even remotely neutered when I try and fix something.
 
   #2  

CausticUrbanCoast

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Mostly the large ones, any that have gps enabled instruments/attachments or autopilot/high efficiency navigation systems.

They actually started with combines and the tech has come down to tractors now since everyone apperently wants to watch tv and make coffee while operating equipment.
 
   #3  

5030

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..,. and as the electronic controls migrate to the smaller units, the RTR deal will also grow
 
   #4  

5030

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Mostly the large ones, any that have gps enabled instruments/attachments or autopilot/high efficiency navigation systems.

They actually started with combines and the tech has come down to tractors now since everyone apperently wants to watch tv and make coffee while operating equipment.
...or get loaded in the cab and let the Greenstar drive the unit. Got a friend farmer like that. Gets in one of his JD track machines with his cooler and spends the day getting cocked. I will say that as good as they are, they still screw up. he had that issue last spring and the field shows it. Nice straight rows and then this decided lean to the right, off to the ditch.
 
   #5  

CausticUrbanCoast

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...or get loaded in the cab and let the Greenstar drive the unit. Got a friend farmer like that. Gets in one of his JD track machines with his cooler and spends the day getting cocked. I will say that as good as they are, they still screw up. he had that issue last spring and the field shows it. Nice straight rows and then this decided lean to the right, off to the ditch.
He decided the earth was crooked and changed the horizon?
 
   #6  

RickB

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Any brand of off-road machinery with a programmable computer and proprietary software. In the Tier IV world we live in that's 98% of every diesel powered machine 26 hp and up for starters.
 
   #7  

Grumpycat

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My understanding is that one can not replace a JD alternator or hydraulic valve without pairing the ESN of the module with the central ECU. “I don’t like the alternator. Not Genuine JD. No go.”

JD says they have to do this to preserve the integrity of the emissions systems. But as implemented it goes far deeper.

It will be a show stopper when I buy my next tractor.
 
   #8  

CausticUrbanCoast

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My understanding is that one can not replace a JD alternator or hydraulic valve without pairing the ESN of the module with the central ECU. “I don’t like the alternator. Not Genuine JD. No go.”

JD says they have to do this to preserve the integrity of the emissions systems. But as implemented it goes far deeper.

It will be a show stopper when I buy my next tractor.
It was the same with the Renault-Ford automobile system, it was proprietary and "protected" under trade secrets until the EPA stepped in and required manufacturers to adhere to the ODB standards.

The farmers are currently fighting for the same type of oversight/regulations that govern construction equipment in regards to these systems.

However, depending how you look at it, component checking is mostly reasonable; who wants to fry a $50k by installing an out of spec alternator? Individual state laws can still hold the manufacturer/dealer responsible for replacing it even if the person who did it signed paper that says they knew it would damage the system.

Is it right? Is it wrong? The industry says nobody really cares until it is off warranty and by that point, most have already resold and bought another new machine to run on warranty.

Like most things, companies do not want to maintain and support old equipment. That 10 year automobile parts inventory that manufacturers are required to stock? They are lobbying heavily to get rid of it, expect construction and agricultural equipment to go the same way.
 
   #9  

5030

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100% correct and it gets even worse. My buddy down the road with his quarter million dollar JD machines, cannot even change the oil filters or air filters until the ECM 'tells' the dealer it's time.... and no 'generic filters' either. Has to be genuine JD because the filters themselves have built in electronic monitors that gauge the restriction, so when it's time to replace, the on board electronics 'communicate' with the dealer. Don't know about oils but the filters I do know about. of course the dealer has to do the service too (farm call).

I will say that JD has it pretty well sewn up far as no right to repair, but the others aren't far behind.

Not familiar with CNH or Case IH but with Kubota presently, if you purchase a T4 final tractor (common rail ECM controlled) from Kubota, don't think for a second that you will able to 'fix' an issue in the barn because Kubota has used proprietary connectors on their ECM's as well as other emissions control modules and only a authorized dealer has a scan tool capable of accessing the connectors. IOW, you have an issue, only the dealer can diagnose and repair it, not you. Have to have the Licensed by Kubota Diagmaster scan tool and you cannot buy one. In fact a dealer cannot buy one either. The tool is 'leased to a dealer'.

My personal view is that tractors and ag equipment should be like automobiles, IOW OBD so you can purchase a scan tool and download the codes and make the necessary repairs yourself, using compatible parts, not their parts at their prices.

Whole thing is tantamount to a large crock of poo in my view and why I won't buy a new tractor. Why would I spent multiple thousands of dollars (the units I run start at 60 and go up) and be enslaved to a dealer for everything.

I hope the farmers out in the plains win their suit against JD concerning 'right to repair;. Fine with me and at that point I might consider a post 4 tractor, but not until then.
 

5030

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Is it right? Is it wrong? The industry says nobody really cares until it is off warranty and by that point, most have already resold and bought another new machine to run on warranty.
That don't hold water either because the new owner is screwed. Not everyone buy new every year or every other year and used machines just simply vanish.
 
 
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