Why are people in Indianapolis going postal.

[strantor]

Perhaps I'm a dreamer, but I don't think the world is any worse off now than it was 100 or 200 years ago. I do believe that as a society we have grown and have made remarkable strides in all aspects of our lives, but because of those strides, all the bad crap is now out there in the open for everyone to see.

I almost felt embarrassed when we finally got our boys cell phones at age 14 due to all the school activities. I see kids now that look to be 5 years old with cell phones in church. That said, my mom just gave me a coloring book.

No I agree with you. That was sorta the underlying theme of my post. The reason why it feels like the world is going to hell in a handbasket is because we have "the news" always screaming that it is (because that's what sells) and we have AI controlling our informational diet, constructing data streams specifically designed for each of us, to portray our own individual ideas of dystopia as reality. Not only is the media broadly selling us "the sky is falling," they're selling to each of us our own specific personalized version of "YOUR sky is falling." In 2021 you gave to go out of your way to have a world view that isn't tragically skewed.

 

[ultrarunner]

Father and son killed in arson within site from home...

Worked at corner market where police called... Father not involved but say had the wrong employee for retribution...

Expert witness this week I'm MN trail former home where he lived decades ago targeted to send a message...

Bold or emboldened is first thought...

When smash and grab, burglary, etc isn't even pursued... what's a criminal to think?

 

[k0ua]

Thank you, I was hoping you'd respond.

Have you ever heard of one LE organization use another LE organization to do a traffic stop and not inform the responding officer from the different LE organization on why / what he should be aware of?

To myself, common sense dictates that the responding officer have all the information about the subject prior to the traffic stop if he's being asked to pull someone over.

Again, what I found odd was how quick it seemed that "professional decked out people" showed up at the fallen officers side.

No. Not in my day. But that was a lifetime ago. Bulletins always came out over the computer, many of them nationwide, and of course regional bulletins and local coordination with both State, and Local PD. I worked for a Sheriffs office and we had direct communications with State and Local PD with ring down hotline phones as well as cross channel radio frequencies where we monitored theirs and they monitored ours. This was in our respective HQ's and the cars all did this as well. Communication with your other agencies was often critical from a safety and effectiveness standpoint.

Even the Wildlife officers and of course the FBI had our frequencies and could come on our frequencies and transmit for interoperability when needed. Of course these agencies had their own frequencies for their day to day operation and we didn't monitor them, but when they needed help they sure didn't hesitate to ask for it.

I remember one scenario of a wildlife officer coming up on our frequency and asking for assistance in a car chase in a very rural area of our county. Needless to say we dispatched cars to block the path of this guy and got him stopped. He was wanted on a Federal warrant out of California and was a really bad guy. What he was doing at a desolate area in Greene County Missouri and being "jumped" by a wildlife officer I don't know.

I only communicated with FBI agents once in a while, and something bad had always just happened. Usually bank robberies.

So long story short, it seem incredible to me that brother officers from another agency would not warn another officer about a bad guy if they knew before hand.

 

[Sigarms]

So long story short, it seem incredible to me that brother officers from another agency would not warn another officer about a bad guy if they knew before hand.

What I find perplexing is how it seems officers were at the scene so quick after the officer was killed calling in "officer down" (right after the truck sped away) and yet we both agree that it appears the officer who made the traffic stop didn't really "know the guy that he had pulled over" per the past history with other LE organizations (AKA the person operating the vehicle was a low life who had no issues with killing a LEO).

Am I out of line to think that something fishy is going on per the video "evidence"?

I only ask because I have no clue, but would like to think I can use common sense and that's where my brain is going.

My thought process is homeland security is now having a "oh *****" moment and is trying to figure out whose head may fall on this (based on the video shown).

 

[Jstpssng]

There was a somewhat similar incident here years ago, when the local PD had been warned that a convenience store was going to be held up at a certain date and time. They laid in wait for it to go down but downplayed the danger to the store clerk. In the ensuing holdup she was stabbed and killed, while LEOs waited a block away.

Convenience Store Clerk Stabbed Under Police Surveillance

LEWISTON, Maine (AP) _ A cashier working alone in a convenience store was stabbed to death as police, tipped off to a possible holdup, watched the business.

apnews.com

 

[Sigarms]

There was a somewhat similar incident here years ago, when the local PD had been warned that a convenience store was going to be held up at a certain date and time. They laid in wait for it to go down but didn't warn the store clerk because they didn't want to alarm her. In the ensuing holdup she was shot and killed, while LEOs waited a block away.

Be curious to see a link on that.

Can't help but think think that the womans (killed) family got a boatload of money.

EDIT - That's the thing about today's technology and accessing information.

I looked, is this the incident you were refering to?

Convenience Store Clerk Stabbed Under Police Surveillance

LEWISTON, Maine (AP) _ A cashier working alone in a convenience store was stabbed to death as police, tipped off to a possible holdup, watched the business.

apnews.com

I'm stupid or missed your link, apologies. End of the day, with a little looking I was still able to find it at my home on an incident that happened over 20 years close to 1000 miles away.

I can still remember having to go to the library having to look things up

 

[Sigarms]

At the end of the day, I think NOW we hold LEO's more accountable for thier actions than we do low lifes who have no fear breaking the law in taking a life. Not saying it's right or wrong, but the way it is.

If the incident I posted that happend in Maine is correct, not certain how you could hold the local LE agency accountable. It seems per the victims own mother per the article I posted, that the store clerk knew what was going to go down possibly.

Using common sense, if a LE agency is suspecting of a future crime per an anonymous tip, not certain why you wouldn't use an undercover LEO as the clerk if that request was denied. If anything, the store's owner bears more responsibility than the LE organization from what I've read.

EDIT

Not certain if I agree with this or not.

Li v. CN Brown Co.

Li v. CN Brown Co. - 645 A.2d 606

law.justia.com

Thing about lawsuits, there can be so many of them and you aren't certain who's paying who...

Li v. Travelers Insurance Co., 634 A.2d 1267 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Li v. Travelers Insurance Co., 634 A.2d 1267, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

 

[jjp8182]

....
Personally, I wouldn't want to be a black man pulled over on the side of the road if I know I'm a law abiding citizen. All one has to do is look to the town of Windsor, Virginia to see why I can come to that conclusion as a white man.

Cops are humans. They have some training, but when you have to make a decision in 1/4 second, it’s going to result in mistakes sometimes.
Im actually one to believe there isn’t MORE mistakes!
The guy in the army was making a big spectacle. The cops were mad because he wouldn’t pull over after a miles or more of him not obeying the cops! All he had to do was say “officer, I can’t exit the car, my seat belt is fastened“. Instead of doing that, he decided to ask the cops questions. That’s not the way it works. They ask the question, smart people answer them and obey their orders.
Those cops were both reprimanded or dismissed.
That’s how it should be.

How many of these incidents where you see felons or law breakers resisting arrest and fighting with cops would still be alive if they didn’t resist arrest?

Can't say I fully disagree or agree with either of these points after some of the things I've seen in the last few years this being one of them:
Alabama deputy gets 3 years in prison for lying under oath ...not sure that saga ever got much attention (took the murder of a vocal critic who had non-trivial local ties before it even got much attention locally).

Short version of the events are off-duty deputy got in (tarted?) a bar fight (due to looks/comment about the woman he was there with) with a local handyman, deputy got his back-sided whooped and then pressured other department personnel into providing information about the handyman, after which he (and other officers - some unknowingly) pulled over and beat the handyman to the point of hospitalization. One of the handyman's customer's learned what happened, starting making a lot of noise .....and was then found dead with a small caliber bullet hole in the back of his head. .....which is what finally started getting attention from other authorities.

So yes, I agree cops are human .....and sometimes you get some bad ones, and sometimes you also get what you pay for as not all places have stringent hiring requirements for law enforcement (and the pay is commensurate with that low requirement). Of course the firearm training/currency requirements are also pretty weak (I would go so far as to wager there are a fair number of here who fire more actual rounds annually and could probably pass the annual marksmanship requirements for many law enforcement agencies). Of course, since law enforcement's primary duty isn't to engage in gunfights that level of training isn't something the public (as a whole) seemingly wants to fund.

Incidentally a comment about US history at one point (early after the founding) militia service was required in the US and all militia members were also required to supply their own firearms. That eventually went away due to the population forcing the issue by showing up with cornstalks, broomsticks, etc. in place of firearms. Which is potentially one example of the early breaking down of society and the ignoring/disregard of civic duties.

Ultimately for any society to exist, it's members must want it to exist and be willing to take part in making it happen - whether that be through direct involvement, or even the simple indirect involvement of obeying the duly enacted laws. Anything else is likely to lead to anarchy (if not immediately, then potentially after passing through a stage of tyranny). The things that aren't taught in history and civics classes (or that get forgotten) is bordering on shameful.

Which highlights the point that children (who eventually grow into adults - potentially without actually becoming adults) may only learn what they are taught (unless they are successfully taught to learn for themselves) ....and if that teaching is horrible. ....well, then it shouldn't be much of a surprise we're seeing what we're seeing -- particularly when nearly every child will be shown/taught violence, but not all will be taught to value life (or even to think about something other than their own needs).

 

[jjp8182]

This is an exceptional post:

I would like to discuss the portion I highlighted, and this:


I believe the ailment America and most of the west suffers from is multifaceted but the main component is media, with a large sub-component being social media. For the older population probably the "news" is the biggest factor and for the younger population probably social media is the bigger factor. Those in the middle suffer a double whammy.

I quit following "the news" a few years and my mental health improved significantly. But I still had a fly in my ointment. It got worse over time. After covid hit, it was downward spiral. I couldn't believe half the population is so stupid because they believe "this" and the other half is so stupid because they believe "that." And I couldn't believe how hateful they all were in throwing their ideologies at each other. The world seemed like not such a great place.

So before getting to the mental state where I was ready to quit the world, I quit the thing that was influencing me to think how bad it is*. Since then, my only "social media" experience is forums like this, and I mostly stick to the technical threads and leave threads like this unread. The only reason I skimmed this is one to see if anyone brought up the reason why "going postal" is a term.

Since then, I have been a much happier person. Since then I have more time for things that matter. Since then I experience the world as it is, not as how Facebook wants me to think it is. Which brings me to:

* In case you didn't know, Facebook AI curates your feed to show things that it knows will get you fired up. They've figured out that things which make your blood boil, generate more engagement (more ads seen, more money made) than pictures of cute kittens. They give you just enough cute kittens to keep you from feeling like it's an absolute cesspool of rank butthurt, but in fact, it's an absolute cesspool of rank butthurt. ON PURPOSE. Facebook is a cancer of society and I think it and every other social media platform plays an appreciable yet unfortunately unquantifiable role in nearly every major tragedy like this one.

Please, quit social medial. You will be glad you did. It matters not how many uplifting memes you read, share, or re-share. You're playing a game that is rigged against you and they wellbeing of society, and you're just a pawn.

Great point - personally I've fome to the realization that much of the news really doesn't matter. The sun will still rise tomorrow, I'll most likely still wake up with air in my lungs, and be able to go about my day.... which of course just begs the question: why should I expend emotional effort on events that don't affect me and I can't directly affect?

Really if others (or even everyone else) want to go racing down the highway to hell, all I can do is offer the advice it's a bad decision and let then them decide where they want to go/do for themselves. ...and by "hell" I don't mean that figurative child's fantasy filled with fire and demons I mean the state of mind that makes that child's fantasy seem a heavenly vacation destination compared to the feelings where every day spent alive is a worse punishment. In other words the sort of thing that is true suffering which may (if the person is lucky) eventually end up lighting a fire under someone's backside and cause them to realize there's a lot more to life/reality than just their own existence and cause them to find happiness in serving something other than purely their own needs (e.g. care of family, participation in society, tending to nature).

May just be me, but I've yet to meet a completely selfish person who was content or even happy with their life - though I've seen there are influences that try to imply otherwise.

 

[Sigarms]

Can't say I fully disagree or agree with either of these points after some of the things I've seen in the last few years this being one of them:
Alabama deputy gets 3 years in prison for lying under oath ...not sure that saga ever got much attention (took the murder of a vocal critic who had non-trivial local ties before it even got much attention locally).

Short version of the events are off-duty deputy got in (tarted?) a bar fight (due to looks/comment about the woman he was there with) with a local handyman, deputy got his back-sided whooped and then pressured other department personnel into providing information about the handyman, after which he (and other officers - some unknowingly) pulled over and beat the handyman to the point of hospitalization. One of the handyman's customer's learned what happened, starting making a lot of noise .....and was then found dead with a small caliber bullet hole in the back of his head. .....which is what finally started getting attention from other authorities.

So yes, I agree cops are human .....and sometimes you get some bad ones, and sometimes you also get what you pay for as not all places have stringent hiring requirements for law enforcement (and the pay is commensurate with that low requirement). Of course the firearm training/currency requirements are also pretty weak (I would go so far as to wager there are a fair number of here who fire more actual rounds annually and could probably pass the annual marksmanship requirements for many law enforcement agencies). Of course, since law enforcement's primary duty isn't to engage in gunfights that level of training isn't something the public (as a whole) seemingly wants to fund.

Incidentally a comment about US history at one point (early after the founding) militia service was required in the US and all militia members were also required to supply their own firearms. That eventually went away due to the population forcing the issue by showing up with cornstalks, broomsticks, etc. in place of firearms. Which is potentially one example of the early breaking down of society and the ignoring/disregard of civic duties.

Ultimately for any society to exist, it's members must want it to exist and be willing to take part in making it happen - whether that be through direct involvement, or even the simple indirect involvement of obeying the duly enacted laws. Anything else is likely to lead to anarchy (if not immediately, then potentially after passing through a stage of tyranny). The things that aren't taught in history and civics classes (or that get forgotten) is bordering on shameful.

Which highlights the point that children (who eventually grow into adults - potentially without actually becoming adults) may only learn what they are taught (unless they are successfully taught to learn for themselves) ....and if that teaching is horrible. ....well, then it shouldn't be much of a surprise we're seeing what we're seeing -- particularly when nearly every child will be shown/taught violence, but not all will be taught to value life (or even to think about something other than their own needs).

Thing is, let's go back to 1946.

The blinding of a WWII vet opened America’s eyes to the evil of Jim Crow

The brutal beating of a soldier returning home from war made an everlasting impression on President Harry S. Truman.

www.navytimes.com

What's your opinion of this event?

Thing is, with most of us being white in color, do they ever teach this in school on what black people had to endure?

Reality is even in the early to mid 1900's, being black was a pain in the arse.