Wire Size For A 60 Amp Breaker ,.According To The NEC ??

[Sberry]

not a #10. if i wired #10 to a residential 60 amp breaker id be responsible for the resulting fire

No one said everything could be wired to a number 10,,,, but ever notice when this comes up, very little fact, all,,, I taught Edison everything he knows and to tell the truth a lot of "industrial " electricians not all that impressive with code knowledge and never really had to deal with inspections,,, yet they seem to know all kinds of them, more than the rest of us for sure. Saw one a while back,,, the electrician from work wired a 7.5 motor with a 12 cable.
But,,, does anyone read any installation manuals? Or the instructions? Makes a guy wonder how Lincoln Electric quotes and follows NEC with instruction manual with millions of welders allowing a number 12 wire on a 50A circuit? Wouldnt a guy think,,,,,,, this is code for 75 years,, wonder why they havnt changed it?

 

[Sberry]

So let's say someone plugs in a microwave and coffee-pot with burner on their 14ga/15a circuit?

That is a circuit thermally protected by the breaker as I mention earlier,,, general use circuit with multiple outlets. Its wired differently than AC circuit, motor or welder circuits.

 

[Sberry]

Hell a 50a breaker would protect 12ga wire if all it was doing was protecting for short circuit.

Absolutely... hence the 12 allowed to the welder. Hobart has easy manuals, download stickmates.

 

[LD1]

That is a circuit thermally protected by the breaker as I mention earlier,,, general use circuit with multiple outlets. Its wired differently than AC circuit, motor or welder circuits.

Perhaps you should have been a little more specific when you said a breaker thermally protecting a wire is the most egregious quote on all of electric.

Infact....MOST residential circuits are just that.

Now you want to backpedal

 

[Sberry]

Industrial is not over seen by local inspectors in most of the country. I know of nowhere that inspectors inspect Industrial electrical.

Kind of makes my point. They are actually required to inspect new installs but may be able to do it wholesale so to speak. If there is a master on staff is sposed to have a yearly walk thru and overlook the installations.
The process is in front of the code book.

 

[Sberry]

Lots more places are adopting NEC and going to state inspections. They are getting rid of many county licences. For long time when they adm in their own could get a lic rather simply. In this state the industrial doesnt count for much unless it was on a resume to another plant etc. There was a hard time slot with big layoffs 35 yrs ago and there was some lobby to let the guys test for lic that had been in maint for a long time but it didnt go far. Dont get excited,,, I know they not all that way.

 

[grsthegreat]

here in Idaho, the state inspects ALL industrial and commercial work.period.

it all has to adhere to NEC. it does not matter what instruction manual says.

a UL listed device does NOT have to adhere to NEC codes. thats why theres alot of #12 control wires in a 60 amp lathe. but once a wire leaves the UL listed device, it HAS to adhere to NEC rules (at least where i live and work).

here, if an industrial or commercial machine has 40 amps on the nameplate, we have to install a knived, fuse disconnect next to the device,fused at 40 amps. The wire between disconnect and equipment HAS to be sized for 40 amps. then we have to run the circuit to the distribution panel, from the disconnect. Here we can upsize circuit protection to 125% over nameplate rating. the wire between breaker and the knifed disconnect has to be rated for the oversized breaker. what they require in your neck of the woods is up to your inspectors.

 

[Sberry]

I have couple union buds,,, they are the best, they are top masters for the outfits they work for and hold every paper they print for it. The one took state test,,,, said he scored higher than anyone had ever taken it. I asked a while back, I thought I might have to get a job and wanted a referal for the hall. But I ask about men,,, he just roll back and said,,, we got our share of slugs.
I know guys here are not like that, this is a contentious bunch and doesn't do dangerous work. But they quick to jump with an opinion about code legal installs not being safe with some basic abstract reasoning. Also jump to a lot of concluisions,,, such as,,,, some circuits may be wired with smaller wire on a larger breaker doesnt mean we can put the motor coach or the range on a 10 wire... There is a specific requirement for that particular receptacle. Same with general circuits.
Some machines, take a 250 synch not sposed to be wired with cable and not really cord but individual conductors in flex. Cord not to be used for perm wire and cable the ground not big enough, they allow 8 wire but 100 breaker and the 10 comes in the cable not big enough.

 

[ponytug]

@Sberry As the first post made clear, this is clearly a homeowner, not a large industrial facility, so I do not see how your comments are relevant, nor why you thought they were relevant.

I think it is on you to quote the relevant section of the NEC that allows what you are advocating. e.g. Section 630-11 of the National Electric Code does not appear to support your assertions. The calculations for reducing the wire size require a very specific set of information to be on the nameplate of the welder in question to rate the outlet in any way other than normal NEC processes, and that section of the code points that the derate is specific to a specific device, and by the way only for welders with duty cycles less than 100%. I would also point out that is increasingly rare for commercial welders not to have 100% duty ratings in today's industrial environment.

Thanks @grsthegreat and @LD1 for the informative comments.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Sberry]

I would say control wire is 12 on a 50 lathe. it all has to adhere to NEC. it does not matter what instruction manual says.

We might want to read it again,,, it does have to follow the mfg instructions when they list them, mfgs like welders go to great length to make the new machines code compliant. Its what the dvi is all about.