Wrong Oil Recommendation in 2210 Owner's Manual?

   #1  

Argonne

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Wrong Oil Recommendation in 2210 Owner\'s Manual?

I purchased a 2210 (w/FEL & 54" MMD) about 2 weeks ago. I'm extremely impressed with the machine, but I was astounded to discover that the owner's manual recommends "API Service Classification SG or better" engine oil for this 3 cylinder Yanmar diesel. Automotive oil in a diesel! So I called my local JD dealer and asked the mechanic what they use. He said they use JD PLUS 50 which (he said, and I believe him) is a diesel rated oil. He then looked up the oil requirements for the 2210 in the repair manual, and in there it says "SAE 15W-40 - API Service Classification CH-4 or higher", or "SAE 10W-30 - API Service Classification CG-4 (4-cycle) or higher". No surprises right? Diesel oil in a diesel.

Looks to me like there's a serious mis-print in the owner's manual. I took a look at the online owner's manual for one of the Yanmar powered JD 4000TEN series machines and found the same problem. Could be that all of the Yanmar powered machines have the same recommendation, but I've only looked at the one so far.

Last night I e-mailed Yanmar and asked what their oil recommendation for this engine is, and they told me to call John Deere (predictable) and ask them. No to be dissuaded, this morning I talked to a local Yanmar dealer and explained the situation. He stated that Yanmar recommends diesel rated oil in all of their engines. Specifically, a similar engine in a Yanmar tractor calls for API CC or CD.

So later today I called JD Customer Service and started the ball rolling on getting some answers. The tech I talked to immediately elevated my query to the engineering types and said he'd call me back tomorrow. I'll pass on here what I learn when he calls me back.

I'm posting this admittedly incomplete report in case any of you out there with affected machines are planning on doing an oil change with automotive oil in the next day or so. I'm no mechanic, but I'm guessing that would be a bad idea. For the same reason I am posting this in the JD forum rather than the Lube forum in hopes of reaching the target audience faster.

P.S. The service manual also says the service interval for oil change where break-in oil has been installed is 5 hours. This would place the owner's manual recommended first oil change of 50 hours ten times too long, so I'm finding out if my tractor was shipped with break in oil. (Ironically, the recommended break-in oil is API SE.) The Yanmar guy I talked to said that all of THEIR tractors are shipped to them with dry crankcases, and it's up to the dealer to decide what to put in....I'll ask my JD dealer tomorrow. I have 12 hours on my tractor.

Stay tuned.

Argonne
 
   #2  

beenthere

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Re: Wrong Oil Recommendation in 2210 Owner\'s Manual?

Deere tractors are driven off the trucks so they already have oil in them.

My 4300 book says:
PLUS-50 (SAE 15W-40)
TORQ-GARD SUPREME (SAE5W-30)

with other oils depending on temperature conditions.

Hope you get a call tomorrow.

I have found mistakes in the manual as well.
 
   #3  

Macdaddy

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Re: Wrong Oil Recommendation in 2210 Owner\'s Manual?

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( .......the owner's manual recommends "API Service Classification SG or better" engine oil for this 3 cylinder Yanmar diesel. Automotive oil in a diesel! )</font>

Found this on the FINA website:
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Category SG oils include the performance properties of API Service Category CC as certain manufacturers of gasoline engines require oils that also meet the diesel engine oil category CD. )</font>

Doesn't address all of your fears but shows the oil is qualified for diesel engines, albeit at level that may not be correct for your engine.

Incidently, that site also says SG is obsolete.

Oil grades CA through CE are obsolete as well.

My goodness! all the recommended oils for our tractors are obsolete, or else all the service publications are out of date. I'd bet on the latter.

FINA lubricants API Oil classification
 
  
  • Thread Starter
#4  
OP
Argonne

Argonne

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Re: Wrong Oil Recommendation in 2210 Owner\'s Manual?

The 2210 owner's manual says:

The following John Deere oils are preferred:
· PLUS-50®
· PLUS-4®
· TORQ-GARD SUPREME®

Other oils may be used if above John Deere oils are not available, provided they meet the following specification:
· API Service Classification SG or higher

The dealer mechanic said today that PLUS-4 is an automotive oil. I'll read the label while I'm there tomorrow.
 
  
  • Thread Starter
#5  
OP
Argonne

Argonne

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Re: Wrong Oil Recommendation in 2210 Owner\'s Manual?

Thanks for the FINA link MAC. I'm going to go take something for this headache now..... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
   #6  

RalphVa

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Re: Wrong Oil Recommendation in 2210 Owner\'s Manual?

I switched to Mobil 1 5W30 on my 4010 at 13 hours. It's diesel rated. Have 10w40 Mobil 1 (50/50 blend of 5w30 and 15w50) in my Benz diesel engine; plan to change it to the new 5w40 Mobil 1 at the next change.

The temperature chart in my 4010 owner's manual shows 15w40, 5w30 or 10w30 depending on the temperature range in your zone. My zone fits 5w30 and is what I have in my other 2 cars; so it's handy to use. It's only the old Benz that calls for a xxw40 grade.

Mobil 1 at 5w initial probably has about the same initial boiling point as dino 10w oils. So, you're gaining lower vis starting without potentially losing more from evaporation using Mobil 1 at the lighter initial grade.

So far, the 4010 hasn't used a drop. It now has 55 hours on it. Not using a drop isn't particularly characteristic of a good engine. Older Benz engines were designed to use oil.

Ralph
 
   #7  

gsxr1100

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Re: Wrong Oil Recommendation in 2210 Owner\'s Manual?

Mobil 1 5w (synthetic, non ep oil) has a flash of about 435F and Vi 167 and HTHS of 3.08. There Drive clean (5w-30 dino) oil has a flash of 392 F, VI of 159 and my guess is HTHS is below/around 2.

There drive clean 10w-40 (dino) has flash of 392, Vi of 147 and HTHS of ?????
 
   #8  

beenthere

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Re: Wrong Oil Recommendation in 2210 Owner\'s Manual?

Ralph
I remember when they would say (or cover their rearend) with the comment "they were designed to use oil" too.

My 4300 doesn't use oil, at least to the point any is needed between oil changes.

Looks like we just need to put in the oil that we think the diesel engine needs, and not worry too much about the manual (as it also appears to cover the bases).

About the Deere mechanic, and I hate to say it, but some of them get wierd quirks about oils and such, that are not always the best source of information on what is right. I know one quite well, and have to take what he says with a grain of salt once in awhile. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
  
  • Thread Starter
#9  
OP
Argonne

Argonne

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Re: Wrong Oil Recommendation in 2210 Owner\'s Manual?

UPDATE...kinda

- No callback from Deere Customer Service today. When I do get info out of them I'll post it.

- Went to dealer today. PLUS-4 is automotive oil (SL), PLUS-50 is Diesel rated.

- Like Beenthere said, the dealer says that they receive all but push type lawn mowers with full crankcases. To the best of their knowledge, tractors are shipped with break-in oil. Therefore, the first oil change should be at 5 hours as the service manual says, and not 50 hours as the owner's manual says. I'll be changing mine tomorrow (at 14 hours) with PLUS-50.

As an aside, my JD 3 point weight box came in today. Pretty good price, $188. Holds 4 cubic feet of your favorite ballast, and probably 5 if you fill it to the brim.
 
   #10  

megotatractor

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Re: Wrong Oil Recommendation in 2210 Owner\'s Manual?

don't quote me on this but I believe I saw in my manual when I did the 50 hour service that the hydrostat holds HOW many gallons???? another ridiculous misprint.
and not to mention the complete lack of instruction on the glow plugs but that's another issue...
 
 
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