Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher?

   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #1  

wmgeorge

Silver Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
102
Location
Ankeny Iowa
Tractor
JD650
Has anyone seen one of these in real life, seen it operate or would care to comment? Need to do some shallow trenching or digging up to about 4 ft deep, time is no problem!!

Link> Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices


OR am I better off with a 608 CAD Digger plans/Kit for my JD650? I'm wondering if the 608 uses a PTO pump vs trying to use my tractor Hydraulics??

Bill in Iowa
 
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   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #2  
$3000 ! How much would a used backhoe be for your JD?
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #3  
My brother built the Cad Digger 628 some years ago. He lives south of Austin and has very hard rocky ground. Used the crud out of it. I tried it out and thought it would work great in soft soil. Beats a shovel. The big thing I noticed was if you tried to pull to hard, it would drag itself forward easy. We have 2 Harbor Freight stores in the area. I have not seen this at any. For the $3k you might be able to find a decent used 3 point.
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #4  
You can pick up small 6' 3 pt. backhoes for less then $3K off Ebay. But they weight about 1000#'s so I'm not sure if the JF650 would handle it.

Wedge
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #5  
As Jim mentioned, the lack of weight will be the biggest issue. If you leave it tethered to a pickup or other "heavy thing" (maybe your JD), it will help a bunch.

I would second the notion of finding a BH attachment though. I would also consider renting a BH or mini-excavator for a couple of days rather than buying something like this if you are not going to use it a bunch.
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #6  
A buddy of mine built a thing like that and took a few wild rides down some hills. It really was too light to do any real digging and pretty "tippy" too. He did all kinds of "modifications" without really helping much. In the end it was just too scarry for him and he sold it.
Get a real backhoe or rent one.
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher?
  • Thread Starter
#7  
bx24 said:
As Jim mentioned, the lack of weight will be the biggest issue. If you leave it tethered to a pickup or other "heavy thing" (maybe your JD), it will help a bunch.

I would second the notion of finding a BH attachment though. I would also consider renting a BH or mini-excavator for a couple of days rather than buying something like this if you are not going to use it a bunch.

The problem with renting, this place is 2.5 hour drive from anywhere that rents. So I really can't get by with a 1 day rental, it needs to be a 3 day at least. I'm leaning toward a small kit built type loader for the 3 point. Perhaps a 5 ft BH, as nothing needs be over 4 ft or so below grade for trenching. The local people are nice, but it takes forever to get anything done, and you need to stand there and make sure they do it right. If I did not care I'd let them do it and screw it up. We have houses moving downhill (slowly) because they did not understand what makes a house foundation stable on a hill. So yes, it would be cheaper to hire it done, but I want things done right.

Since most of the owners at the lake are not locals, I think there would be a small market for the "do it right" vs "cheap when we get to it" contractor.

I've got a small fabrication set up in my home shop, and I'm retired so unless I can buy one used, I'm looking at the CADdigger website.
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #8  
wmgeorge said:
... care to comment? ... for my JD650?

Been There Done That. Well, I asked the same question on TBN.

After everyone here told me to forget it, I researched what would fit and watched all the regional Craigslists within a half-day drive.

I found an ideal real backhoe for $2,500. The size I got would be fine on the 3-point of a 650 but watch the weight. I think the common one you see on Jinmas is too heavy for your tractor to lift.

Here's where I asked your same question and got several thoughtful replies: Harbor Freight's little Towable Backhoe.

And: a thread about the hoe I bought.

Now that I have some experience I realize it would be impossible to back a towable hoe into nearly every place where I need it. In this picture it had rained for days. Then my tenant's sink drain backed up. It would have been impossible to get that HF rig in where I needed it; any tow vehicle short of a tractor would sink to the axles.

And thinking about it, trying to back the HF hoe along an open trench any time to backfill it would be a nightmare, especially on poor traction like in this picture.

P1140941rBH-DigSinkDrain.jpg
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher?
  • Thread Starter
#9  
Excellent!! :) What size tractor do you have HP wise and weight? My little JD650 has 16 HP and is gear driven 8 speed and is about 2000 lbs or so with the FEL. I think the 3 point is rated at 1000 lbs or so... anyway this is the way to go.

How much did you pay for this setup and what does it weigh?? Did it come a PTO pump and tank? Thank you. BG in Iowa
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #10  
wmgeorge said:
Excellent!! :) What size tractor do you have HP wise and weight? My little JD650 has 16 HP and is gear driven 8 speed and is about 2000 lbs or so with the FEL. I think the 3 point is rated at 1000 lbs or so... anyway this is the way to go.

How much did you pay for this setup and what does it weigh?? Did it come a PTO pump and tank? Thank you. BG in Iowa
The answers are in those threads I cited, you just have to wade through my longwinded style while I discuss alternatives and make up my mind! :) :)

But to summarize:
My YM240 is a near twin to JD 750/850. It's 24 engine hp and supposed to be about 1700 lbs bare. On a truck scale with this loader and the oversize tires (but no ballast) it was 3,000 lbs. That hoe was designed for Kubota's equivalent of my Yanmar.

This hoe is small enough that I think I could have bought a larger one. It's not going to tear the tractor apart, even on a 3-point mount, but it may be 80%??? of what the 3 point can lift. For a larger hoe I would start thinking about an undercarriage mount. That might be essential to use this hoe on your 650.
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #11  
I bought a Woods BH6000 off of Craigslist for $2800. It was literally used once to repair the guys stone wall. My Yanmar 186D is virtually identical in size to your 650. This backhoe is the perfect size for our tractors. Now, i did spend several hundred more having hoses made and getting steel cut to build my subframe (i have a welder and built the subframe myself). I strongly suggest you be patient and keep looking. I have heard many times those small diggers pull themselves all over the place because they won't stay planted (at least in soil similar to mine). There are plenty of Woods 650s out there..... scour classified ads and be patient. I looked at PLENTY of worn out, patched up JUNK before i found this. PATIENCE !!


YanmarYM186D167.jpg
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #12  
I used a "TOE HOE" from Northern Tools for about 15 years, dug lots of water lines, a couple of thousand feet of irrigation lines, sprinkler lines, maintained waterlines at two rental trailers, Water and power trenches for my church and finally blew out three hydraulic cylinders digging drainage lines at our church. I finally Broke down and bought a Korean 7600 for my kubota.
I was going to replace the hydraulic cylinders and ordered them from surplus center but I really wanted a real backhoe so I got one.
Anyway I will sell the machine for the cost of the replacement cylinders.
$350.00 would be a good deal if someone wants to dig in good dirt or sand,
clay is a PITA. haven't really had any problems except when I was trying to do something that really needed a larger machine. bigest problem is freight, it weighs 1000 lbs. It can be towed with a car or truck but a long tow would be better on a trailer or in a truck bed. If anybody in South texas would like it you can pick it up in Sequin, TX. It has 12" and a 9" buckets. You will have to finish installing the cylinders, it has all the fittings.
E-mail me at jimc@gvec.net
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #13  
"drag itself forward easy"

That makes sense, have to leave it hooked up to it's transport.




My brother built the Cad Digger 628 some years ago. He lives south of Austin and has very hard rocky ground. Used the crud out of it. I tried it out and thought it would work great in soft soil. Beats a shovel. The big thing I noticed was if you tried to pull to hard, it would drag itself forward easy. We have 2 Harbor Freight stores in the area. I have not seen this at any. For the $3k you might be able to find a decent used 3 point.
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #14  
We have 2 Harbor Freight stores in the area. I have not seen this at any. For the $3k you might be able to find a decent used 3 point.

If I'm not mistaken they are order only?
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #15  
I have heard these machines work nice for small jobs, or easy ground. I'm with the others check into a used BH for your tractor. Unless of course you are only doing small easy jobs?
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #16  
Opinions opinions, everyone has an opinion. So Do I but I actually own and operate one of the HF ride on trenchers (like a small back hoe) and it works good for me. I have few illusions of grandeur about it being a humongous industrial rated monster digger but it trenches and digs OK for me. Like every machine it has its pluses and minuses and it takes time to learn to use it efficiently (well it didn't take me long to be productive but it takes getting used to the controls so you don't swing the arm when you meant to curl the bucket but that is the same on every machine I ever operated. One of the funniest things I ever saw was an honest to goodness true expert track hoe operator (30+ years in oil field) trying to operate an extenda hoe with different controls.

A back hoe on a tractor (3PH) might be more convenient in many instances than my trencher. In many other instances it would not be much different and in a few cases I think the trencher might be better at getting in tight places. Ordinarily I operate it unhitched from the tow vehicle but that is not a requirement and at times may not be preferred.

Have I ever had a problem? Well yes. I lifted it up in the air with its claw and shut the engine off. Then when I lowered it I accidentally set a stabilizer pad on my foot (ouch.) I couldn't reach the pull rope to start it to raise it hydraulically and it was too heavy to pick up. Luckily I had a helper that day or I would have been there until someone happened by. Sounds funny and may have been but it was a serious situation. Nothing broken just a sore bruised foot.

The more I operate the trencher the better I get and the more I learn about how to be more efficient.

It takes a while to rearrange it from towing configuration to digging configuration (and back) but it isn't rocket surgery or brain science. I did weld a couple lengths of square steel tube vertically as carrying accessories for the stabilizer arms when in tow mode, a true convenience.

I find the engine to be easy to start and runs good. Like all small engines it is a bit noisy and to avoid additional long term hearing loss I wear hearing protection.

When you reach out and try to pull the bucket back to you, dragging it too deep, great forces come to play and the digger may move ahead toward the bucket rather than the desired bucket toward the digger motion. This is an operator malfunction not a real equipment short coming. It has a bucket on the end of the digger arm NOT A PLOW. Dig one bucket full at a time and there is not many instances where there is a problem.

What would I change about it if I could? Well, sometimes (friends say usually) I get a tad hyper and wish I could get all the motions it makes speeded up. Also some of the hydraulic controls interact such that doing 2-3 things at the same time is not easy or necessarily the fastest approach. If you do one motion at a time such as curl or uncurl the bucket, raise the arm, extend the arm, swing the arm laterally, or whatever you make good progress and modulating the speed of the movement with the hydraulic controls is easy. If you try to do 2-3 things at the same time it gets complicated as not all the controls interact the same way.

I think it is a good value, i.e. what I paid vs what it does. I have used it for many feet of trenches and I could outrun a covey of shovel armed ditch diggers. I have plenty more digging in store for it later toward spring and am confident I will still like it after that is done.

One short coming is if you have to dig a little here and a little over there and over there is a quarter mile away you need to reconfigure it and tow it as it takes a while to move it very far on its own, pulling itself around like a handicapped crawdad with one claw. However this is not a problem if your site conditions and clearances allow you to leave it in tow configuration while digging. It digs fine while hitched to a tow vehicle if there are no tight constrained spaces where you can't get where you want to be with the tow vehicle attached.

I make no claim that this machine would replace all backhoes in all situations. I do claim that it is a good trencher for the price, has done everything I tried to do with it and I look forward to plenty more digging with it. It will dig dirt that is just too darned hard for me to dig with my FEL on my 40HP Kubota.

Another thing: I use my tractor for feeding the herd, moving large round bales every other day. I haul several 5 gal buckets of feed (3PH with carry all is good for that.) It would be totally unacceptable to have to install and remove a backhoe every 2 days. A machine dedicated to digging works for me. I can't dedicate my single tractor to being a backhoe. For a couple weeks now my pastures are too soft to allow a 4x4 pickup to be used to carry the buckets of feed. I would rut up the field BIG TIME or get stuck. The tractor ruts it a little but the large tires don't sink in as much and gets the job done reliably.

P.S. Our house has been on our backup generator for electricity since last Friday at 2PM due to an ice storm. If we had a 3PH style genset that would be a real nightmare. To use the tractor you'd have to kill all power to the house. To use the tractor effectively you'd have to mount and dismount the genset from the tractor. The point is that sometimes a machine that does one thing and does it well, standing alone and doesn't tie up another useful machine is a far better and only truly practical solution whether it is a generator, a trencher, or pliers or knife or screw driver or... I have and frequently use my Leatherman multi-tool but... it is rarely better at any job that the real thing, just better than not having some capability at all.

Pat (deep in darkest Oklahoma, no lights in sight for days but mine as not everyone has a generator. Now neighbors on a different utility have lights but not us.)
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #17  
Opinions opinions, everyone has an opinion. So Do I but I actually own and operate one of the HF ride on trenchers (like a small back hoe) and it works good for me.

Actual facts are not allowed on some forums!!

Haven't you read the thread?

This is to jump on the inadequacy of the HF machine. I bet it can't even make coffee.!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Really though patrick it is refreshing to find at least one person that admits to using the tool.

The manual seems pretty well written. Is it possible this is just a low end trencher made by a regular trencher company? Like the HF Sawmill actually made by Hud-Son.
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #18  
I suppose it could be made just about anywhere. The engine is Chinese but starts easy and runs good so far. If I wear out the engine I don't think changing it out will be too tough. Even if I wear out the hydraulic pump that is easy to replace from easily available sources, no need to try to find an exact duplicate.

They sell the buckets separately so that is covered (not sure how to break a bucket.) The construction is open, accessible, low tech, and should not be hard to rework should I manage to wear out a bushing or make a round hole into an oblong over time or whatever.

I may want to either mod another bucket or make one of my own just a tad over the minimum digger stick width so I can dig a narrower trench. I would have to move less dirt so could dig more linear feet of trench per hour. For a pipe or a wire you don't need all the width of the standard bucket. Of course digging to direct water runoff is well suited to the standard bucket. I'm not entirely sure yet but strongly suspect there may be times when in soft material that I could use a larger bucket.

Oh, I forgot to apologize previously for introducing actual fact into an equipment discussion. My bad. I know it is heresy and I could get the dunking stool or worse for my offense but I sometimes just can't help myself. When I see a group of people in a philosophical discussion tantamount to arguing about the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin I have been known to suggest taking a loop or other optical aid and counting the little buggers instead of guessing.

Pat
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #19  
loop or other optical aid and counting the little buggers instead of guessing.

Is it hard to swing a small loop like that and get em all in one?:D:D

Sounds like you need more tractors too Pat!:D:D
 
   / Harbor Freight Back Hoe Trencher? #20  
patrick g - You didn't leave much out or your comments at all.
I bought the HF trencher too and love it for what I need to do.
I broke the welds on the bucket the first day I had it but they made good with a new one free (before they sold them separately) and let me keep the old bucket (which I got welded and had the teeth removed).
I went to CAD Plans and then to Metkit to buy parts for a smaller bucket, 6".
I farmed out the welding which got $$$$.
I bought the Metkit "ripper" - the best darn tool ever and built a thumb to go with it.
To move it quickly about, I put the trencher bucket into my FEL bucket and tow it that way for short distances, no messing with turning it into a trailer.
 

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