Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18
  1. #1
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    133
    Location
    Springhill, SC
    Tractor
    Kubota L4400 4WD Hydrostat

    Default Does this planter/tiller exist?

    Was thinking I'd like to strip till a field of clover (say 12-18" row width tilled), and have these strips on 30 to 36" centers. This would leave a strip of about 18" of clover that is allowed to grow on. After the first till, come back in 2-3 weeks, till the same strips again. When I'm ready to seed the row, use the same device to plant the row. Once the seed starts taking off and the clover reaches maturity, come back at some point and till in (effectively cultivate) the mature clover row middles.
    I think this is probably something along the lines of a no till type planter but not sure. Problem here being not planning on using any burndown chemicals to kill the clover (or other cover) before planting into it.... which is my understanding of the way typical no-till planting is done. Or maybe there is some sort of strip till or minimal till "planter".

    I'm thinking that with the strips tilled that wide, I wouldn't really have a problem with competition for moisture & nutrients at the early corn stages, and I'm also thinking that by waiting to till the clover in the row middles, I'll realize a more significant N contribution about the time the corn can use it.

    I'm experimenting with this for this season with a normal rototiller in my home garden. Just was thinking maybe that if it works out, I could move the idea into some field corn I'm going to be planting..... Have a nice field of crimson clover that my cows will graze down and set back, so would be nice if I could till the rows after they graze it down, then let the middles regrow....

    Now, if any of this makes sense, I'd like to find the device in a one or two row planter. Haven't purchased a planter yet so figured I'd look into my options.

    Anyone know of anything like this? Can anyone see any problems with the general idea.

  2. #2
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    378
    Location
    NSW Australia
    Tractor
    Tractors16-600hp Farm & Earthmoving Equip, Trucks etc.

    Default Re: Does this planter/tiller exist?

    Interesting concept & IMO well worth experimenting with - the variety of clover will determine the quantity & timing of N release.

    Seeing you want an "organic" approach & it's somewhat of an experiment, I'd guess the aim is to keep the cost low & it simple (which rotary tiller set ups are not), though not knowing field size or hp of your tractor let's base around a c.60hp machine:

    1) Source a sturdy s/h 3PL 3 bar chisel plough/frame given your 36" centres say 6-8'
    2) Allow on the plough frame for multiple 18" clear spans for each non-tilled row
    3) For one pass 18" tillage rows to plant the corn: use 3x evenly spaced forward mounted spring drirect drill trash chisel tynes or deep moisture seeking points to break/shatter the ground with the centre tyne set deeper than the others, followed on the second plough bar by 2x small duck foot tynes set high to invert the displaced clover, on the third bar centrally mount another single deeper set duck foot to establish/prep the drill row followed by a press wheel planter mounted on the same frame (remove or flip the planter to cultivate the remaining clover rows when required or better still if you want to maximise N retention/preserve moisture use only the front chisel tynes fitted with a home fabricated bolt on single 18" V blade/knife bar mounted across the 3 tyne row set up & set to slice the clover just belong the ground leaving the N & N rich clover root system intact.

    Trust this pompts a few ideas

  3. #3
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    133
    Location
    Springhill, SC
    Tractor
    Kubota L4400 4WD Hydrostat

    Default Re: Does this planter/tiller exist?

    I like it! Thanks for the interest. FWIW, I've never done any ploughing or planting with a tractor other than tree planting on a large scale. Have been around tractors and farm implements..... just not for "Farming" per se.

    Yes, I'm wanting to do this on the cheap side.

    Tractor is kubota L4400.... 45HP, (4wd, hydrostat if that makes any difference.) Do you think it would still pull the device as you're thinking?

    I generally grow crimson clover and some sort of grass mix (oats/cereal rye). I've had good success with growing the clover thus far BUT it's never quite "ready" when I need to till before planting late winter/early spring items, so would be nice to be able to let it grow on, thus how I came around to this as a possibility.

    I think I'm getting the general idea here with your explanations, but I'm a greenhorn when it comes to ploughs...
    Questions related to your 1,2,3 above...
    1. Not sure what s/h 3PL 3 bar chisel plough/frame is. I'm thinking s/h is second hand, and best I can tell, you're saying I want a frame with 3 parallel bars that I can mount the implements you list on. Doesn't mater what's currently on the frame because I'm taking that off probably anyway (round "coulters" etc). I actually have an old disc (coulters) but both of the rows are at angles and there are only 2 rows....

    When you say 3x/2x etc, you're just saying mount 3 (or 2) of the particular tyne type within the area that I will be ploughing correct? The idea being, get whatever size I need to get the job done but stay within the 18" area. When the duckfoot tynes invert the clover, is it going to move it OUT of the area that is ploughed and on top of the clover row middles? Not sure how these things work. Don't guess that matters really. If it flips the "sod" out of the way, then maybe it would be ok to plant directly while working the row for the first time.... little to no N tie-up affecting corn.... any thoughts? Was originally thinking I'd till>let sit a few weeks>come back and till again then plant. No matter, I could still use your recommeded setup once prior to planting also (without the planter).

    On the undercutting device/knife, I think you are suggesting that it could be mounted on the frame (below all the other "plows"), so I wouldn't have to reconfigure anything other than attaching the knife. Depth control would place this at the correct location to sever the roots keeping the rest of the plows out of the ground.

    Who makes a planter that can be "flipped" out of the way.

    My heads spinning right now so let's start here....

    Thanks!

  4. #4
    Veteran Member dusty3030's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,446
    Location
    Arkansas!
    Tractor
    JD 4120, 400x loader, bucket, bale spear, pallet forks, grapple

    Default Re: Does this planter/tiller exist?

    Couldn't you just hip up the rows and plant your corn on the raised bed?

  5. #5
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    79
    Location
    Kentucky
    Tractor
    Kubota L3400 & JD 5220 & MF 4243

    Default Re: Does this planter/tiller exist?

    Intercropping with clover can be done with cereal grains (summer and winter). Although these don't address your equipment ideas, you might find them interesting reading from the agricultural perspective.
    http://www.uwex.edu/ces/crops/uwforage/Kurademo.PDF
    http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pub...ons/PM2025.pdf
    __________________________________________
    MF 4243, JD5220 & Kubota L3400 with all the fixin's.
    Truax FLXII 88
    PLANT NATIVE!

  6. #6
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    378
    Location
    NSW Australia
    Tractor
    Tractors16-600hp Farm & Earthmoving Equip, Trucks etc.

    Default Re: Does this planter/tiller exist?

    IMO:-

    Q -Tractor is kubota L4400.... 45HP, (4wd, hydrostat if that makes any difference.) Do you think it would still pull the device as you're thinking?
    With 45hp depending on your ground conditons you may be restricted to only 2 direct drill runs - also give consideration to having your drill/cultivation spacings inline/within with your tractor wheel track (otherwise you'll be flattening your corn when cultivating the clover for the second run)]

    Q: I think I'm getting the general idea here with your explanations, but I'm a greenhorn when it comes to ploughs...
    Questions related to your 1,2,3 above...
    1. Not sure what s/h 3PL 3 bar chisel plough/frame is. I'm thinking s/h is second hand, and best I can tell, you're saying I want a frame with 3 parallel bars that I can mount the implements you list on. Doesn't mater what's currently on the frame because I'm taking that off probably anyway (round "coulters" etc). I actually have an old disc (coulters) but both of the rows are at angles and there are only 2 rows....
    Refer the attached photo's, unfortunately I don't believe your disc can be adapted

    Q When you say 3x/2x etc, you're just saying mount 3 (or 2) of the particular tyne type within the area that I will be ploughing correct? The idea being, get whatever size I need to get the job done but stay within the 18" area.
    Right on - depending on your soil/conditions it may be possbile to have only 2 rather than 3 tynes on the 1st bar

    Q When the duckfoot tynes invert the clover, is it going to move it OUT of the area that is ploughed and on top of the clover row middles? Not sure how these things work. Don't guess that matters really. If it flips the "sod" out of the way, then maybe it would be ok to plant directly while working the row for the first time....
    little to no N tie-up affecting corn.... any thoughts?
    Yep, that's the theory, the inverted clover will die & mulch on the corn bed releasing extra nutrients & assist retaining moisture in the bed

    Q Was originally thinking I'd till>let sit a few weeks>come back and till again then plant. No matter, I could still use your recommeded setup once prior to planting also (without the planter).
    Again depends on ground conditions, I understood you were looikng for a minimum till/single pass solution

    Q On the undercutting device/knife, I think you are suggesting that it could be mounted on the frame (below all the other "plows"), so I wouldn't have to reconfigure anything other than attaching the knife.Depth control would place this at the correct location to sever the roots keeping the rest of the plows out of the ground.
    Yes that's the theory, the 18" V knife (plasma cut/ground check plate will work with welded bolt on adapters) should be mounted across the first 2/3 heavy tyne set & depth control or rear depth wheels takes care of the rest

    Q Who makes a planter that can be "flipped" out of the way.
    None factory made that I'm aware, easy to adapt though with a self made hinge/locking pin arrangement

    My heads spinning right now so let's start here...
    Good luck, the attachment further details my initial thoughts on what to base it on.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -tbn21032013-jpg  

  7. #7
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    133
    Location
    Springhill, SC
    Tractor
    Kubota L4400 4WD Hydrostat

    Default Re: Does this planter/tiller exist?

    Dusty30/30-
    Not exactly sure what you mean? A simple solution would be nice!

    Foodplot-
    Thanks for the links. Already read both of them. Interesting and looks like some of it applies to what I'm considering.

    MBTrac-
    When you say "may be limited to 2 direct drill runs, you're just saying I'd only be able to plant/ cultivate two rows at a time correct? If that's the case, no problem because it's all I'm thinking anyway. Maybe only one row at a time with offset planter/single row cultivator.

    Thanks for the photos... above and beyond and certainly clears things up for me. Wasn't counting on my disc being adaptable.

    "Q Was originally thinking I'd till>let sit a few weeks>come back and till again then plant. No matter, I could still use your recommeded setup once prior to planting also (without the planter).
    Again depends on ground conditions, I understood you were looikng for a minimum till/single pass solution"
    Minimum till and single pass sounds wonderful. Most of my soil is a sandy loam on the surface 4-6" + with a well drained sandy clay below. So, based on these soil conditions, I take it that you think I could pull this off in one pass?

    Sounds like you have some experience with minimum till solutions....

    From your perspective, if you think this concept could be workable, why wouldn't more people be doing it?

    Well anyway, I'm liking it, if for nothing else the experiment.

    Thanks Again

  8. #8
    Veteran Member dusty3030's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,446
    Location
    Arkansas!
    Tractor
    JD 4120, 400x loader, bucket, bale spear, pallet forks, grapple

    Default

    http://darrellharpenterprises.com/pr...ws/hipper.html

    This. Pull up your row in a bed. Plant on top. This will disk in the clover, plant corn on the raised bed.
    YOU SHOULD TREAT EVERYONE WITH COURTESY AND RESPECT. BUT HAVE A PLAN FOR KILLING THEM........JUST IN CASE.

  9. #9
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    378
    Location
    NSW Australia
    Tractor
    Tractors16-600hp Farm & Earthmoving Equip, Trucks etc.

    Default Re: Does this planter/tiller exist?

    [QUOTE=e.myers;3241883]Dusty30/30-
    MBTrac-
    When you say "may be limited to 2 direct drill runs, you're just saying I'd only be able to plant/ cultivate two rows at a time correct? If that's the case, no problem because it's all I'm thinking anyway. Maybe only one row at a time with offset planter/single row cultivator.

    Thanks for the photos... above and beyond and certainly clears things up for me. Wasn't counting on my disc being adaptable.

    "Q Was originally thinking I'd till>let sit a few weeks>come back and till again then plant. No matter, I could still use your recommeded setup once prior to planting also (without the planter).
    Again depends on ground conditions, I understood you were looikng for a minimum till/single pass solution"
    Minimum till and single pass sounds wonderful. Most of my soil is a sandy loam on the surface 4-6" + with a well drained sandy clay below. So, based on these soil conditions, I take it that you think I could pull this off in one pass?

    Your 45hp kubota in sandy loam should be able to able to haul this easy ( one pass 2 & I would expect 3 rows easy - it's only the first 2-3 heavy tynes that are engaging any depth

    Sounds like you have some experience with minimum till solutions....
    Just a little a few generations + more acres than I can recall - we've just invested in another no till disc seeder @ c$ 130K for our farms (pictured) - disc coulters are fine in certain seasons/conidtions by won't provide the same crop moisture seeking options in all seasons as the machine I've described for your set up/nor will they handle heavier clovers as well

    From your perspective, if you think this concept could be workable, why wouldn't more people be doing it?
    Common large farming practice now for zero/minmum till approaches, still unusual to see anything on small scale hence the lack of 3PL gear readily available except in maybe Europe - Large scale farming also doesn't always lend itself to organic approaches with the vagaries of seaons & substantial capital investment ..etc often needed to be underwritten/safeguarded by the use of copious amounts of fertilizers/chemicals for more consistent germination/yields

    Well anyway, I'm liking it, if for nothing else the experiment.
    Farming is a day to day proposition & a constant experiment, what works for someone today doesn't necessarily adapt to individual environments - we've had some pretty costly experiments over the years with new gear & the latest/greatest tractor innovations - but what you're considering is a fairly proven concept
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -tbn21032013a-jpg   -tbn21032013b-jpg  
    Last edited by MBTRAC; 03-22-2013 at 03:31 AM.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member CliffordK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,202
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Tractor
    Toro D200, Ford 1715, International 884,

    Default Re: Does this planter/tiller exist?

    I thought about something like what you're wanting a year or so ago. But, never built it.

    Perhaps one could make a gang of Mantis Tiller blades, being a little less agressive than normal tiller blades.



    Done right, you might be able to run your mantis tiller blades right in front of the seed drill, and it shouldn't take too much horsepower depending on the row width. I wonder if you built shields around the tiller, if you could try to convince it to keep as much dirt as possible in the row, rather than mounding it up between rows.

    Last year I decided to try planting Corn and Peas together in a single row, with the idea that the peas might be able to grow up the corn. It surprised me, but neither the peas, nor the corn grew well in that row.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Backhoe Does one exist?
    By Tpprepper in forum Attachments
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-31-2012, 05:22 PM
  2. Rake Does this rake exist?
    By rickmacheske in forum Attachments
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-24-2006, 09:17 PM
  3. Does This Tractor Exist?
    By LSmith in forum Buying/Pricing/Comparisons
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 09-21-2005, 02:50 PM
  4. does muhammad really exist?
    By tgello in forum Related Topics
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04-29-2002, 03:08 AM
  5. 23/32 Does it exist?
    By Alan L. in forum Related Topics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-15-2001, 09:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
© 2014 TractorByNet.com. TractorByNet is a registered trademark of IMC Digital Universe, Inc. Other trademarks on this page are the property of their respective owners.