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  1. #1
    Super Member
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    JD 5520, 790 TLB-- Kub L4300, B7800, MX5100

    Default Enamel hardener and paint safety...

    I like to paint a used implement when I buy it and have been thinking of using the Valspar "Enamel Hardener" from TSC. I am not sure if it is safe or not even though I have a good paint respirator.
    The ingredients listed in the can are "Aliphatic Polyisocyanate and Isophorone Diisocyanate" along with Naptha and N-Butyl Acetate.
    The can mentions you MUST use a good paint respirator but you MAY also use a supplied-air system.
    Can anyone help understanding this? I paint outside.

  2. #2
    Platinum Member bjcsc's Avatar
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    Johns Island, SC
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    JD 5225, JD 555B

    Default Re: Enamel hardener and paint safety...

    If the cartridges in your mask are good for isocyanates, you're in good shape (but most aren't). If not, you're taking some level of risk. If you paint outside, that level of risk drastically decreases.

  3. #3
    Elite Member SPIKER's Avatar
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    Ohio, Jeromesville, Ashland County
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    Jinma 284

    Default Re: Enamel hardener and paint safety...

    the isocyanate's is deadly if not used with proper respirator and or the proper type of air system to keep you breathing. but they are worth using just be safe use proper gear to protect you're health, I painted my dump trailer using these same paint from there & the hardner too, it scratched but still is in great shape considering it has moved 100 ton of creek / wash gravel I scooped up and a lot of that is big rocks and wood tossed in for fun...

    mark M
    I may remember why I went to the other end of the shop, I'm just afraid once I get there I'll forget how to get back!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Enamel hardener and paint safety...

    While not an exact medical explanation, you know how spilling super glue on your fingers makes a smooth hard layer on the skin? That's what happens to the inside of your lungs when iso-cyanate's are inhaled. You don't feel any different, but your lung capacity is reduced. It gets less and less every contact and the lung damage is permanent. Soon you will have to stop for a blow after wiping your bottom. I don't know of any cartridge that removes them from the air.

    For me, the cost of a supplied air system that is used 1-4 times a year is well worth it.

    jb


    I got a PM on how much $ and where for the supplied air system. This is old data, but here is where I got my system - price about $400.

    Hobbyair 1 Click Here for Options: Autobody Store
    Last edited by john_bud; 01-13-2008 at 09:49 PM. Reason: add link

  5. #5
    Elite Member ToadHill's Avatar
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    Kioti DK35, Ford 8N, Oliver Cletrac

    Default Re: Enamel hardener and paint safety...

    The story isn't about newer paints and the chemicals in them but it is just what can happen if you paint without a mask.
    When I was in High School I worked PT in a body shop. The guy I worked for always painted without a mask. He'd been doing it for 30 years. His wife asked him to refinish a couple of dressers and he took them into his basement and applied stripper to them.
    He never came up and his wife went to see what happened to him, the autopsy said the stripper loosened all the paint in his lungs and he suffocated.
    I can't control my day but I can control my attitude.

  6. #6
    Gold Member RedDirt's Avatar
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    Sierra Nevada Mtns
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    Kubota BX23, Wards 16HP HST Garden Tractor, (previous) D2 Logging Cat

    Default Re: Enamel hardener and paint safety...

    Good timing on this post. I'd been considering using the TSC hardener but now I think I'll pass. Another coat of paint in a few years, if needed, beats health problems.

    I spray outside w/"standard" paint respirator & old style auto spray gun (not HVLP). Any problems with that system and Rust-O-leum new metal primer, rusty metal primer, and TSC equipment enamel?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Enamel hardener and paint safety...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedDirt
    Good timing on this post. I'd been considering using the TSC hardener but now I think I'll pass. Another coat of paint in a few years, if needed, beats health problems.

    I spray outside w/"standard" paint respirator & old style auto spray gun (not HVLP). Any problems with that system and Rust-O-leum new metal primer, rusty metal primer, and TSC equipment enamel?

    Red Dirt-- We are OK spraying with the non-catalyzed--no iso--finishes if a good respirator is used that is OK to use with paint and chemicals. It says so right on the filetrs. It's the other stuff that is open to debate.
    You should look into HVLP. I cut my paint use by 50-70% or so. I have a DeVilbiss Finishline but even Harbor Freight has one for $40 that works great.

  8. #8
    Super Member Farmwithjunk's Avatar
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    Where do I begin.....

    Default Re: Enamel hardener and paint safety...

    Iso's are dangerous. As recently as 3 years ago, manufacturers warning labels/material saftey data sheets indicated you were "safe" painting outdoors and/or with a "good" filtered mask. That's changed. The warnings are a little more specific now. You can absorb iso's through your skin. Even a little vapor, when inhaled can have serious side effects, sometimes not showing up immediately.

    I painted 2 tractors with iso hardeners in the paint. I used a top-of-the-line charcoal filtered mask. They don't catch iso's. Almost 2 years after completing the second paint job, I started having symtoms of asthma. The slightest hint of iso vapor will send me to the hospital now. Your resistance is greatly lowered with each exposure. Some people are MORE susceptable than other. Many are inclined to believe they AREN'T susceptable when they get away with early exposure. They continue to use iso's and suffer the consiquences at a later date.

    You only get one set of lungs. Don't destroy them.

    Wear proper skin protection when using iso's. (Mylar suit, gloves, ect) use a "supplied air" breathing system.

    Professional painters usually have the luxury of a downdraft paint booth to carry harmfull paint vapors away and filter them without releasing into the atmosphere. Painting outdoors MAY offer YOU some personal protection, albiet small, but that harmfull compound is released into the air that the rest of us have to breath.
    There are three kinds of men;
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  9. #9
    Veteran Member
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    Case DX55, Ford 850

    Default Re: Enamel hardener and paint safety...

    Can those hardeners be added and then use a brush to paint rather than spraying? I'm looking for a durable layer but don't really care if the implements have a nice pretty finish.

  10. #10
    Super Member
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    Default Re: Enamel hardener and paint safety...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ford850
    Can those hardeners be added and then use a brush to paint rather than spraying? I'm looking for a durable layer but don't really care if the implements have a nice pretty finish.

    Yes they can. You will need to add some flow enhancers to get a smooth finish (or just know there will be brush marks).

    You will still need to use the same protective equipment as the iso's are given off while evaporating etc.

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