2 women are building a horse run-in, can you give a little advice?

[cqaigy2]

Im not a carpenter, and my Wife does most of the building on our place but i've been told by the builders in this area that it's not the best to put the post into concrete. For some reason, they don't last very long and deteriorate. I have worked on a number of pole barns and with some, the post where dropped onto a concrete pad with sand and gravel packed in around them. Some of them had placed concrete into the bottom of the hole and before the concrete set, they would insert any number of different steal things so as to be able to attach them to the post to help hold them in case of winds. Some used rebar and some would even used specially build items that had a couple of straps that went into the concrete with a couple more that attached on each side of the post. They were all filled back with sand and gravel.

We don't have cold winters here so frost heave isn't really an issue, but in places like Michigan, I'd imagine you would want to be sure to get below it so your posts etc, don't get pushed out of the ground.

 

[jimgerken]

Fun project! If I was building it, I would consider making it portable instead, like we used to do with small calf buildings. Building it on "skids", so it could be pulled around with a tractor, for re-location when the muck inside becomes overwhelming, or when you realize the site has a bad wind, or a big mud puddle forms at the front corner due to traffic, or someone changes their mind about pasture access,,,, whatever happens. Being able to relocate it is nice for lots of reasons, and animal health is one of them. You might have to downsize it a bit to make it skid-able. I don't have a specific plan for you, but these guys here on TBN will either shoot down the idea, or fill in the blanks.
You don't have to worry about snow load (in my experience with a very low pitch aircraft hangar), it will all blow off if this building sets in an open area of the pasture.

 

[CNC Dan]

I like your idea, and she does have a neighbor that is using his tractor to dig the holes anyway, so he would more than likely lift the posts with the tractor and place them in the holes. What did you say we should use to line the holes to prevent dirt pushing into the holes? Thanks.

not sure of the spelling,
but "saw-nah" tube.
Used as a form to make concrete colums. Should be avilable at home despot etc.

 

[Zebrafive]

Thanks for your suggestions. Hoping to place 2 x 4's from front to back for the roof, then plywood and then shingle the roof to complete (still researching on that though). We were hoping the 12" difference from front to back would be enough slope (at least that's what I have been reading)....With having already bought the posts at 12 foot lengths, I hate to have to take them back and get even longer ones, I don't think we would be able to handle them without help if they are any longer. But if that is what we need to do, then we will just have to get some help with that part of the job.
We plan to carefully measure for squareness at the corners, thanks for the reminder though. Plan to use the 3-4-5 method at the corners and then also measure diagonally from corners to corners. Do you think I should I still measure (using the 3-4-5 method) or just measure corners to corners and make adjustments if needed to square it up?
Could you explain again about nailing the pieces of 2x4s to the bottom four sides of 4x6 uprights? (did I understand it right that we should nail 4 one foot pieces of treated 2x4s to the bottom of each post, all of them, or just the corner posts?) I understand the concept but can't visualize how to nail 4 of them to the bottom of each post. Also, with the entire shed being built with treated 2x8's, wouldn't the weight alone of all that treated lumber prevent a wind lift of the posts? Plus the concrete we will be putting in each hole too? I would think so, but then again, I'm new at this so open to advice...

You are nailing the 2x4s to each side of the poles at the bottom. This gives a ledge for the dirt/cement to grip the post to prevent uplift. Do all the posts. Another suggested cross drill and hammer rebar thru. This works too, but you have to have the correct size drill. Good suggestion.
Your slope is too shallow for shingles. They may even get blown off if the low end is to the prevailing winds.
I would not worry about burying the first board. You will have a wind break and roof over their heads. If it's a problem put a little straw around the perimeter inside.

 

[loribt]

You are nailing the 2x4s to each side of the poles at the bottom. This gives a ledge for the dirt/cement to grip the post to prevent uplift. Do all the posts. Another suggested cross drill and hammer rebar thru. This works too, but you have to have the correct size drill. Good suggestion.
Your slope is too shallow for shingles. They may even get blown off if the low end is to the prevailing winds.
I would not worry about burying the first board. You will have a wind break and roof over their heads. If it's a problem put a little straw around the perimeter inside.

OK. think we will pass on burying the first board. We will just get it as low to the level ground as possible. Thanks for the suggestion. About the slope, how about if the posts sit 18" higher in the front than the back instead of the original 12" we had planned? Would that slope be enough to use shingles? I think that's the best we are going to be able to do. (Unless.....Just curious..would there be another way to raise the front of the roof for added slope without replacing the posts with longer ones?....could we add a thick piece of lumber across the tops of the front posts, and probably the center posts also...to raise it somehow?) Only asking because she already bought shingles from someone who had some left over (enough to do the roof and a bunch left over for only $25, so that's why she thought of using shingles instead of rolled roofing).

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Cheap shingles are great but heavy (expensive shingles are heavy too by the way). A bundle of shingles (32 sq ft) weighs about 80 lbs, plus about 50 lbs for a sheet of 1/2" plywood. 2x4s won't cut it for rafters. Bare minimum of 2x6, preferable to use 2x8. If you can locate some steel roofing it would be a much better option than shingles. Much lighter and any accumulated snow would slide off. Light snow will blow off on it's own, it's the heavy wet stuff you have to worry about.

Typically shingles aren't rated for anything less than a 1:3 slope which means that with your 14' you should have 4' 8" of height difference front to back. This is a residential rating so not the end of the world for a horse run-in. The more slope you can get on the roof the better.

The proper name for the concrete tubes are "sono tubes"

 

[loribt]

Cheap shingles are great but heavy (expensive shingles are heavy too by the way). A bundle of shingles (32 sq ft) weighs about 80 lbs, plus about 50 lbs for a sheet of 1/2" plywood. 2x4s won't cut it for rafters. Bare minimum of 2x6, preferable to use 2x8. If you can locate some steel roofing it would be a much better option than shingles. Much lighter and any accumulated snow would slide off. Light snow will blow off on it's own, it's the heavy wet stuff you have to worry about.

Typically shingles aren't rated for anything less than a 1:3 slope which means that with your 14' you should have 4' 8" of height difference front to back. This is a residential rating so not the end of the world for a horse run-in. The more slope you can get on the roof the better.

The proper name for the concrete tubes are "sono tubes"

Thanks for the advice. I agree with you about the steel roofing..don't know what she will want to do. She doesn't have much money, so she is trying to go the with the least expensive way..she may regret it later, but......at least that's what I think right now. I think alot will depend on how much materials cost up to the time we get to working on the roof. The roof part sounds a little more complicated than I thought it would be. I feel pretty comfortable with getting it done correctly right up to the point of the actual roofing material. ..then she may have to get someone who really knows what they are doing to actually roof it for her.

 

[dclynch]

I also live in Michigan and the rule of thumb for pole depth is 42" to get below the frost line. I wouldnt worry if you only get 36" as the winters we have had lately it doesnt get that cold anymore to drive the frost down that deep.

 

[tcreeley]

Are you doing 14 x 14? 14x 20 would be better. No matter how friendly they are, one will be dominant and will be trying to scoot away from the other one. Two horses need room to maneuver, and the doorway needs to accommodate two horses going through at the same time. 8-10'. Also if you are walking in there with them, you need to think about your space so that you don't get knocked about if one starts to rush, or kicks out. Two entrances on the ends allow one to come in and the other to leave so that there is no bottleneck. I've had 3 horses in a 30 x 15 turn out and that is tight, but with three doors was workable. 14x14 makes a nice box stall for a single horse.

Good luck

 

[loribt]

I also live in Michigan and the rule of thumb for pole depth is 42" to get below the frost line. I wouldnt worry if you only get 36" as the winters we have had lately it doesnt get that cold anymore to drive the frost down that deep.

I tend to agree, sure haven't had the hard Michigan winters like I remember as a kid. I'm not going to worry a whole lot of we can't get them down 42"....with all the weight on the posts, they will probably still be there when we are gone.....thank you for the response.