Buying Advice Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor?

[mo1]

Here's another question. If I decided to take some of the trees out and level up the ground myself with a loader and box blade rather than hire it out, how large of a compact would you guys recommend to do that sort of work? We have done tree removal and grading/leveling with tractors, but it has been with 80+ HP utility tractors with filled tires weighing north of 8000 lbs, not a compact tractor weighing around a third of that much. The 80 HP units didn't have any trouble in doing that work but I can't really do more than guess as to how much smaller becomes "too small" as I've never used smaller machines for that kind of work.

 

[Cherokee140]

Here's another question. If I decided to take some of the trees out and level up the ground myself with a loader and box blade rather than hire it out, how large of a compact would you guys recommend to do that sort of work? We have done tree removal and grading/leveling with tractors, but it has been with 80+ HP utility tractors with filled tires weighing north of 8000 lbs, not a compact tractor weighing around a third of that much. The 80 HP units didn't have any trouble in doing that work but I can't really do more than guess as to how much smaller becomes "too small" as I've never used smaller machines for that kind of work.

Depends...don't you love those answers.

The largest stump I have taken out was about 18-20" or so across. The hole ended up being about 5' deep and it was the very first project I did with the new tractor...it took me two days. Keep in mind that a great deal of that is I had not run a back hoe in about 20 years....I was very rusty. My wife, and son all took turns digging....we really just had fun doing it...so you can't really take that time for a rule. Now that we are actually working the machine trees about the size of your hands clenched together come out in one or two scoops. And about a 12" tree will come out, toss aside, and the hole refilled in about 10-15 minutes. The real pain are the bucket trees. Too big to brush hog, Too big to run over with the bucket and rip out, and really too small to really bother with the backhoe.....they take about a half a scoop....many times I don't even put down the out riggers or drop the bucket.

I have had my machine for 3 months, have 51 hours on it, and digging out stuff is still the most fun....my wife calls it my great big Tonka toy. Planting new trees (fruit) is real fun...that hole is deep enough....no it is not gotta have room for the roots....stop honey that is big enough....naaa....needs to be wider.

You get the idea.

 

[ovrszd]

As Cherokee140 pointed out, you can do the task with a SCUT. The problem being, beyond the time it takes, the wear and tear on the little tractor. A SCUT is capable of running thousands of hours mowing, blading, light FEL work, etc. A SCUT will not run thousands of hours doing heavy work at it's limited capacity. So, there's a fine line there.

I sold a 44HP 5000lb tractor and bought a 95HP 10000lb tractor. I didn't do that because the 44HP tractor would not do the tasks at hand. I did it because I knew the 44HP tractor could not sustain that level of work with longevity.

Long term, you are always better to buy a size bigger than required rather than a size smaller than needed.

 

[cartod]

I am fortunate enough to have both a new and old large frame compact. I never miss a chance to jump on the old 820 2wd but the 4wd 3320 will work circles around it. If your just going to mow, til, and box blade an old deere, Kubota, Massey, ford etc. is perfect. But a front loader is a must for me.

 

[ovrszd]

Cartod, love your ole 820. I passed on a 1020 a few years ago and still regret it. I agree the newer stuff is more productive, but there's nothing like the feel of old iron.

In your 3320 pic, at my house the totes would be full of the wife's stuff that she might need some day....

 

[mo1]

Depends...don't you love those answers.

The largest stump I have taken out was about 18-20" or so across. The hole ended up being about 5' deep and it was the very first project I did with the new tractor...it took me two days. Keep in mind that a great deal of that is I had not run a back hoe in about 20 years....I was very rusty. My wife, and son all took turns digging....we really just had fun doing it...so you can't really take that time for a rule. Now that we are actually working the machine trees about the size of your hands clenched together come out in one or two scoops. And about a 12" tree will come out, toss aside, and the hole refilled in about 10-15 minutes. The real pain are the bucket trees. Too big to brush hog, Too big to run over with the bucket and rip out, and really too small to really bother with the backhoe.....they take about a half a scoop....many times I don't even put down the out riggers or drop the bucket.

The bucket trees are a bit of a pain. We grubbed a bunch of cedars out to make a little paddock at my folks' place with my Dad's previous JD 5410. It would knock over the ones up to about a foot in diameter OK but larger than that and they had to be felled and the stump dug out. We learned that by my Dad trying to knock one over with an about an 18" diameter trunk and shearing the inch-diameter Grade 8 bolts between the loader mount and the tractor on one side. Those bolts were really fun to try to remove since they sheared off flush with the frame. It took a BIG bolt extractor driven by a large impact wrench to remove, but they only came out after being heated with a torch a couple of times first. I would have to fell most of the trees I'd like to remove and dig out or grind out the stumps.

@cartod

Nice old 820! The more I think of it, a loader probably is a requirement. I'll just save up my nickels and get a decent 4wd compact with a loader. I'll keep an eye out to see if something reasonable and used shows up at a local dealership, else I'll buy a new one sometime before the spring comes.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I am fortunate enough to have both a new and old large frame compact. I never miss a chance to jump on the old 820 2wd but the 4wd 3320 will work circles around it. If your just going to mow, til, and box blade an old deere, Kubota, Massey, ford etc. is perfect. But a front loader is a must for me.

Personally I like the size of your little Deere for small acreage or a B series Kubota. I wouldn't go anything smaller than that for general purpose tractor and for me a backhoe is indispensable. I know, most folks cant justify the extra costs but when you get my age, money is not the most consideration. I do things with my backhoe that just wouldn't get done it I had to use a shovel and wheelbarrow. I move rocks with mine that I could never lift by hand and most times couldn't get into a FEL (another have to have implement). When I was young and strong as Hercules I could do all the heavy lifting (maybe that is why my back is so bad today) but now it is hydraulics for me.

 

[Cherokee140]

As Cherokee140 pointed out, you can do the task with a SCUT. The problem being, beyond the time it takes, the wear and tear on the little tractor. A SCUT is capable of running thousands of hours mowing, blading, light FEL work, etc. A SCUT will not run thousands of hours doing heavy work at it's limited capacity. So, there's a fine line there.

I sold a 44HP 5000lb tractor and bought a 95HP 10000lb tractor. I didn't do that because the 44HP tractor would not do the tasks at hand. I did it because I knew the 44HP tractor could not sustain that level of work with longevity.

Long term, you are always better to buy a size bigger than required rather than a size smaller than needed.

I am very interested in this theory....I know running the hydraulic in bypass (or whatever you call it) will put heat into the fluid, and that is bad....I don't know for sure but I think I do run my machine pretty hard. I really want to see if this theory is true....if it results in more maintenance having to be done to the machine. Putting hours on it at the machines limit will shorten its life, vs "easy" hours. Time will tell and it will be fun.

Personally in my noob frame of mind I am going to say no. Everything is run off the engine with a given RPM range. I actually run the engine at a higher RPM when I mow then when I am digging or lifting. I would think that with everything being driven off of the engine and being dependent on the RPM's of the engine that the engine speed would be the only factor on life of the machine. Again this is all from my know nothing about tractors, but I do know engines and cars. I have built engines that last an hour, that same build with different carbs, timing and such last much longer when run at lower RPM's....I would think that it would be the same.

All this is provided you don't overheat anything, heat is the enemy and I think that if you keep that hydro fluid cool that is going to be the key.

This is really the main reason why I am documenting everything with this machine. What I post in the day in the life thread is only a short part, I put when I put on and take off the deck, when I clean it, where the oil is at....and naturally what I did with the machine.

I think that the real abilities and the ruggedness of the small machines are underestimated, and this log will be good if nothing else for my own curiosity....who knows the little machine may roll over and die at 400 hours, I have put 50 on it in 3 months....it should not take us but about 4 years to see how it is doing at 1000 hrs. We will see and it should be fun.

 

[ovrszd]

Cherokee140, I know you think that way, you've stated it numerous times. I'm just telling you from experience, buy a size larger than you need rather than buy a smaller size that will complete the tasks at hand.

You'll figure that out in the years to come.

I'll go "all in" on this. In 3 years max you will have traded off the BX. Took a serious loss because it'll be worn out. Will complain incessantly because it didn't hold up. And bought a size or possibly two sizes bigger tractor.

Feel free to call me out on this in 3 years.

 

[Cherokee140]

Cherokee140, I know you think that way, you've stated it numerous times. I'm just telling you from experience, buy a size larger than you need rather than buy a smaller size that will complete the tasks at hand.

You'll figure that out in the years to come.

I'll go "all in" on this. In 3 years max you will have traded off the BX. Took a serious loss because it'll be worn out. Will complain incessantly because it didn't hold up. And bought a size or possibly two sizes bigger tractor.

Feel free to call me out on this in 3 years.

I will....and I will freely admit that I did make a mistake if it indeed goes that way. I think I have done a pretty good job on documenting the issues I have had with the BX....I am not going to sugar coat anything...there is no point in it. I will say exactly what it is, and if the wheels fall off of it one day then I will be on here saying guess what it went kaboom. Those 3 years will be halfway into my paying for it, and at 3 years it will be knocking on the door at 1000 hours. We will then have to see how other BX's fare with the same amount of hours and age....that might be hard.

But enough of our hijack.
Back to our OP.

I think that he has a good amount of experience under his belt. We really don't know where he is in his life. Is he an empty nester with time to take care of an older machine, Is he a 20 something and a wife with a bun in the oven, then there will be little time and a new machine that he can just turn the key and have it go? From his comments it sounds like he knows how to keep the machine running, and he could save money buying an older machine.

Just some things to think about.