PTO, way too often is undervalued in a purchase

[Keith_B]

JC, that is a 4110 NH. Mine is a 4110 MAhindra. I haven't been able to locate a blow-up of the tranny assembly on the net, but I have been able to find that the electro-hydro refers to the clutch assembly for the IPTO, and not the drive system.

We have kind of gotten way off topic here, with the topic being that PTO types should be a factor when making a tractor purchase. There is a need to make sure that your task needs match up with your PTO. I know for me a trannry PTO is not very conducive to some of my tasks.

 

[JC-jetro]

The cluth cover [ref 17 of second pic], has a splined hub in the center. The hollow IPTO shaft engages these and drives a shaft any time the engine is running. The transmission input shaft runs thru the center of the IPTO shaft and is splined into the clutch disc. The IPTO clutch is engaged with hyd pressure thru a valve supplyed with oil from an engine mounted pump. The operation of one has no effect on the operation of the other.

yes, this more like I expected. couple of questions though:


1) Is IPTO (independent PTO) shaft is directly coupled to flywheel? hence independent, with a clutch pack in the rear of transmission (seen that on Mahindra 2010 series).

2) We have two shafts, one hollow (transmission? )that has a solid shaft inside. Is the solid splined inside shaft PTO and hollow outer splined to transmission clutch plate? I have seen on deere parts breakdown reference made to inner shaft as PTO drive shaft.

3) Do we have dual shaft configuration in both Live or independent with single or double clutch?



Thanks

 

[Keith_B]

Go to Tractorsmart.com, click on [INFO], then click on [Tractor power take-off].

Thanks, that has the best explanation I have seen on the hydraulic independent PTO I have read.

 

[Glowplug]

You're welcome. I found it most useful and less confusing than this thread has been.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Another thing to consider is PTO horsepower. . . The amount of hp at the PTO determines what size and type of implements you can run.

I think considering PTO HP is particularly important on lower horsepower tractors. I often see posts here on TBN that say "You should buy a tiller (or other PTO powered implement) at least as wide as your tractor" but they fail to take into account the required horsepower to run that implement.

Owners of large/low horsepower tractors are generally the folks who most commonly make this error. Here are just 2 examples of this, a Kioti CK25 and a CK30 share the same frame but the CK25 is lower horsepower. A New Holland TC35 and TC40 share the same frame, but the TC35 has lower horsepower.

Logically if a rotary cutter requires about 5hp per foot to cut in heavy duty conditions, then the example of the CK25 above would be limited to about a 48" rotary cutter for cutting thick brush, but the width of that tractor is wider than 48". Still, it is common for people to suggest a 60" cutter for this tractor that has about 19pto hp available (less than 4PTO hp/foot) which is sufficient for many conditions but not for heavy duty cutting. I see tiller recommendations for Sub-CUTs that are often absurd for anything but the very lightest soil conditions.

While new owners/shoppers often don't understand that there is a difference between PTO HP and ENGINE HP, we who give recommendations often don't take the conditions others face into account when we give our recommendations. If someone only uses a tiller in sandy Florida soil it would be easy to recommend a larger tiller, but that advice may not be sound if someone with hard Georgia clay soil is the shopper. Similarly, the grass in the northern regions of the US is sparce and thin compared the lush midwestern lawns of Indiana, Illiniois and Kentucky where 6" of thick lawn can ckoke a tractor with 25 engine HP and a modest 60" mower deck.

 

[jimainiac]

Boy, I didn't know there were that many different types of PTO's, but I know there's a big differene in the two kubotas we have. The old one, L245DT is gear driven and has a three speed PTO gearbox. It was our first tractor and there was no owner's manual with it, so I did a lot of mowing in PTO second gear 'till I got a manual for it and found out that PTO first gear is for 540 RPM. The bad thing is that every time you throw in the clutch to change ground speed or reverse, the rotary cutter starts slowing down, and to get the mower spun up to speed you have to put the tractor in neutral first, then throw in the clutch and take off. The new tractor, L3830, is HST, and the PTO remains engaged as you stop, start, change speeds and reverse. It's like going from a Model T to a Mustang!

 

[FULLPULL]

The two stage clutch pto is great to run a square baler .If i was going to start a heavy implement thats the way to gther than that i like the independent. I have changed a independent clutch pak out in a 4000 ford for the pto.There are two different shafts at the bell housing .The 3000 ford with the two stage clutch has one shaft inside another.Both are fun to line back up to couple the tractor back together Over all the 8n is the worst no live power you need a pto clutch so that if bushhogging the momentum of the bush hog turning wont push the tractor foward with the transmission clutch pushed in .

 

[JC-jetro]

The two stage clutch pto is great to run a square baler .If i was going to start a heavy implement thats the way to gther than that i like the independent. I have changed a independent clutch pak out in a 4000 ford for the pto.There are two different shafts at the bell housing .The 3000 ford with the two stage clutch has one shaft inside another.Both are fun to line back up to couple the tractor back together Over all the 8n is the worst no live power you need a pto clutch so that if bushhogging the momentum of the bush hog turning wont push the tractor foward with the transmission clutch pushed in .

Good info, couple of quesion though;

1) Where was the clutch pack in the 4000?
2) Did you have to split the tractor?
3) Dual clutch are much more expensive than single flavor. Which one do you find easier to tackle, splitting the tractor or changing the pto clutch pack?
4) On 4000 were you able to see same two shafts one inside another at the clutch housing? if single shaft, then could you kill the pto by clutching?

 

[Soundguy]

I have a 'just curious' question for you. Why do you favor the 2 stage clutch style live pto vs a live independent pto for stating a large load? Are you thinking of a tractor specific application.. or just 'in general'?

Soundguy

The two stage clutch pto is great to run a square baler .If i was going to start a heavy implement thats the way to gther than that i like the independent. I have changed a independent clutch pak out in a 4000 ford for the pto.There are two different shafts at the bell housing .The 3000 ford with the two stage clutch has one shaft inside another.Both are fun to line back up to couple the tractor back together Over all the 8n is the worst no live power you need a pto clutch so that if bushhogging the momentum of the bush hog turning wont push the tractor foward with the transmission clutch pushed in .

 

[RoyJackson]

When I traded up from a Deere 670 (16.5 HP at the PTO) to a 790 (24 PTO HP), the PTO horsepower was the primary reason.
I wanted enough power to run a chipper and make it a bit easier when I was operating a 60" rotary cutter.