Snow 20" Too Much Snow

[ponytug]

Dear Charlie,

Congratulations! It sounds like a huge amount of work.

I would guess that the fuel solenoid had jammed open. Since the solenoid is a power to open solenoid and closed by spring action, I think that it probably has power, since a power loss would kill the engine. And my bet would be that it jammed because it had been on for so long. (Dirt would be the "place" bet, with a broken solenoid spring as the "show" bet.)

My 1445 died Saturday morning, half way into/out of a stall with a bucket full of manure. Not even a click from the starter. Lifting the hood revealed that the solenoid start wire had sheared away due to metal fatigue and was lying on the bottom of the tub, which would be the definitive open circuit. The horses had a great time watching the field repair. ("Oooh, he's going for a 14ga #2 ring terminal.") Note to self: tie up the loose wires to prevent a repeat from metal fatigue. Sometimes I think that the 3 cylinder engines do vibrate more than their 2 or 4 cylinder cousins.

All the best,

Peter

Having spent two days plowing 12-20 inch stuff with the 1845 (except when it was stuck), I have tried to decide if chains would have made things easier, My conclusion without trying chains is that they would have reduced side slide and crabbing with the blade angled, and probably would have prevented one time I got stuck where I crabbed over a bank and got high-centered. That one required some work with a 2240 John Deere with chains.
The other two times I got stuck, and once even had to use a (ugh) shovel, I managed to back into snow high enough to float the tub. Even the wiggle didn't get me out that once, but the other time I was able to turn back and forth and work downhill to an area I could move in. I doubt chains would have helped.
In Maryland, we seldom get this much and I was able to clear over a mile of road and 6 or 8 driveways without chains, so I'll probably not get them.
Now, can someone suggest why at the end of the day the machine wouldn't shut off? The lever on the side of the engine had to be pushed back manually to shut it down. I haven't checked, yet, to see if there's electricity to it. The starter switch shut everything else down, it was dark, and I was ready to watch a recorded Ravens game.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

I would guess that the fuel solenoid had jammed open. Since the solenoid is a power to open solenoid and closed by spring action, I think that it probably has power, since a power loss would kill the engine. And my bet would be that it jammed because it had been on for so long. (Dirt would be the "place" bet, with a broken solenoid spring as the "show" bet.)

Thanks Peter:
Since a broken spring is the most difficult to fix, I'll reverse your win and show.
I'm about to head home from the office and spend some diagnostic time, The way it is working now, I can actually easily rig a manual system so long as it isn't drawing current. It started and shut down properly once before the failure to shut down, and then restarted after I shut it down manually. (Maybe it will have healed overnight -- you think?)

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

My studded chains make a huge difference in my ability to plow, providing traction and helping prevent the tractor from sliding sideways from the force against the angled plow. Without them, i am limited to plowing downhill if it is icy.

The tractor not shutting down - sounds like the fuel solenoid is stuck open or that there is something shorting at the switch providing power to the solenoid.

Ken

Ken:
If the present rate of global warming keeps up, I'll definitely consider the chains. With the blade angled, it is a fine line between throwing a curl of snow to the side kicking the front followed by rotating the PT into the bank. I'd probably have saved some time with chains over the weekend, but I was pretty pleased how much I could move without them.
I got the impression moving the fuel lever manually that there wasn't much holding it on, so my thought is the spring may have failed, but I'll know more after staring at it and taking some voltage readings. Right now, I'm not even sure how to get to it. It's inside there somewhere, with a lever only outside the case.

 

[tracdoc]

Ken I just got off the phone with Tire Chains Required and their ATV Super Stud seem to be the answer but I am concerned about the clearance. I think your 1850 and my 1430 have the same tire 26x12x12 and may have the same room between the tire and tub when you have just singles on. Did you have any problem? Tire Chains Required said I needed 1.5" to 2" and I measured something like 1" [I will go back out and measure twice]

Perhaps someone else has suggestions or comments on clearance.

I don't have any suggestions on clearance, but I might echo again the caution regarding use of ATV chains on tractor tires. The cross section of a turf or bar typical tire on a PT is rectangular, top to bottom, while that of an ATV tire is typically oval/ellipsoid. The shoulders of the ATV carcass are designed to be rounded for traction in lean angles, while tractor tires are not. This translates to potential fitment problems, either too tight or too loose w/ chain slap/spit which compromises the enhanced traction one is seeking in the first place. Caveat: just be certain that your tire design and chain design are compatible.

When I last purchased chains www.tirechains.com had better prices than TQR and a 125% price guarantee. (I have NO connection w/ them, just a satisfied customer x2)

 

[ponytug]

Dear Charlie,

One doesn't usually get the option of replacing the spring separately from the solenoid, but you might get lucky.

I would bet that the solenoid has fixed itself- that would go with the too hot scenario.

Other than that, you would be on the manual mode...

All the best,

Peter

Thanks Peter:
Since a broken spring is the most difficult to fix, I'll reverse your win and show.
I'm about to head home from the office and spend some diagnostic time, The way it is working now, I can actually easily rig a manual system so long as it isn't drawing current. It started and shut down properly once before the failure to shut down, and then restarted after I shut it down manually. (Maybe it will have healed overnight -- you think?)

 

[ponytug]

I think that the manual switch at the back of Deutz engines is a separate fuel shut off valve, in series with the fuel solenoid. i.e. with a solenoid locked open, you can still shut the engine off, but if the solenoid has failed shut, you can't start it by moving it. Since it is designed to be in either one of two states, it doesn't really have a spring on it, since it is, at least in my opinion from the Deutz perspective, designed just to shut the fuel off to kill the engine, not to regulate fuel flow on/off.

Does that make sense?

All the best,

Peter

Ken:
If the present rate of global warming keeps up, I'll definitely consider the chains. With the blade angled, it is a fine line between throwing a curl of snow to the side kicking the front followed by rotating the PT into the bank. I'd probably have saved some time with chains over the weekend, but I was pretty pleased how much I could move without them.
I got the impression moving the fuel lever manually that there wasn't much holding it on, so my thought is the spring may have failed, but I'll know more after staring at it and taking some voltage readings. Right now, I'm not even sure how to get to it. It's inside there somewhere, with a lever only outside the case.

 

[farm23]

Tracdoc I will try tirechains.com tomorrow and see what they say. I spoke to Terry @ PT today about my foot control problem and he wans't helpful about chains, in fact he seem to discourage their use but then he doesn't have to move snow and ice up hill.

Ponytug if we are talking about the same switch I belive it does only shut off the engine. It is the switch I use to turn over the engine to get the air out of the lines after replacing the hydraulic filter.

 

[SpringHollow]

Yes they are the same size tires. I used the ATV Super Studs and as you can see on that web page, they fit fine if you are careful when you install them. A tractor style chain that wraps around the shoulders more will have clearance issues, as will a normal double loop chain.

The studded chains do not chew up the ground as much as the double loop chains on my other tractors did. On ice, they seem to do better than the double loop.

Ken

 

[ponytug]

That's brilliant!

This is why I love this forum. I've been disconnecting the engine electrical cable as instructed in the manual. This is much better.

All the best,

Peter

...
Ponytug if we are talking about the same switch I belive it does only shut off the engine. It is the switch I use to turn over the engine to get the air out of the lines after replacing the hydraulic filter.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Ponytug if we are talking about the same switch I belive it does only shut off the engine. It is the switch I use to turn over the engine to get the air out of the lines after replacing the hydraulic filter.

Now that I've wired around the seat switch, I'll use the shutoff switch as you suggest. I was wondering how I was going to do that.
On inspection last evening, I confirmed that the lever is just a kill switch, not hooked to the solenoid.
And, the solenoid worked properly after resting overnight. I guess it could have gotten pretty hot with several hours of plowing, but the temp gauge wasn't showing hot. Outside temp was about freezing. On occasion when I have gotten the engine hot mowing, it has been hard to restart and I've had to let it cool. Maybe the solenoid is sensitive to heat.(If it malfunctions again, I hope it will be in the run position.)
HAPPY HOLIDAYS