Extended idling vs switching on and off

   / Extended idling vs switching on and off #21  
Makes me wonder just how much of this is politically correct and how much is mechanically correct. How often have you seen diesel engines left to idle? Tractors, OTR trucks, fork lifts....

Me thinks that a great amount of this is hear say and fears to make us shut down to "save mother earth"....to **** if it is harder on the machine.

But I can tell you what I do, on my brand new machine and the older one. If it is for longer then 10min or so I will shut it down. Going inside for lunch shut down, going inside to recycle some coffee no shut down.
 
   / Extended idling vs switching on and off #22  
I agree with you about the "politically correct" part. If diesel engines were so fragile that if they idled for more than 3 minutes they would fail that would be a horrible design. And I get a kick out of the people that wont let there diesel trucks idle in the morning to warm up when it is -20 out. In the winter I go out and start my truck then go in and take a shower. 30 minutes later its still running and have not had a failure for 15 years.
I do agree with not having the machine slow idle when it is cold. It warms up faster at about 1100rpm.

Makes me wonder just how much of this is politically correct and how much is mechanically correct. How often have you seen diesel engines left to idle? Tractors, OTR trucks, fork lifts....

Me thinks that a great amount of this is hear say and fears to make us shut down to "save mother earth"....to **** if it is harder on the machine.

But I can tell you what I do, on my brand new machine and the older one. If it is for longer then 10min or so I will shut it down. Going inside for lunch shut down, going inside to recycle some coffee no shut down.
 
   / Extended idling vs switching on and off #23  
The 2003 Ford 6.0L diesel I used to have would automatically kick up to a high idle when cold started. It would happen within 30 secs. to a minute after starting, and stay at high idle until the accelerator pedal was touched. My '11 Dodge Cummins with manual trans. doesn't do that, nor does it have a manual throttle control knob. I wish it did.
 
   / Extended idling vs switching on and off #24  
Most of the extended idle mentality is from old way of thinking on old engines. Old diesels are a pain to start and easier to just let run... Stuff like pony start dozers, tractors and big trucks.

But new modern diesel don't benefit from sitting there idling for hours on end. But hey it your money ur sending up the stack so idle to your hearts content. If its gonna be more than 5 mins at idle I shut it off.
 
   / Extended idling vs switching on and off #25  
That is strange that the Dodge does not have a faster idle when cold. Even old cars had a high idle when cold.

The 2003 Ford 6.0L diesel I used to have would automatically kick up to a high idle when cold started. It would happen within 30 secs. to a minute after starting, and stay at high idle until the accelerator pedal was touched. My '11 Dodge Cummins with manual trans. doesn't do that, nor does it have a manual throttle control knob. I wish it did.
 
   / Extended idling vs switching on and off #26  
Just thinking through the theory. Gasoline engines intake a fuel/air mixture at the stoichiometric ratio evenly disbursed, about 14.7:1 or 15 parts air to 1 part fuel. When that vaporized mixture hits cold cylinder walls the gasoline can condense; therefore, an enriched ratio at cold temps ala choke on an older carbureted engine or computer programmed enrichment based on temperatures for a fuel injected engine.

Diesels don't care about the stoichiometric ratio. They always get cylinders full of air and then just enough fuel to keep the engine running at the governed speed whether it is controlled by a mechanical governor or computer. Instead of 14.7:1 a diesel may be running at 150:1 at idle, but this varies from engine design to engine design, will differ more between a direct injection and indirect injection engine.

Newer fuels are cleaner, leave fewer deposits.

But engines do like a more or less constant temperature. In general pistons are an aluminum alloy, blocks and heads are cast iron (for ag tractors), bearings are of differing alloys, etc. When you shut down the engine it begins to cool with the various parts cooling at different rates. Clearances change. When restarted it once again needs to warm so components are at their normal clearance but also realizing the engine is designed to have proper clearances at all working temperatures. So it would make sense to keep the engine at a constant operating temperature and not go through a number of heat/cool cycles.

Conversely even at idle and with an oil film between moving components operating time equals wear. Not much wear at idle but still wear.

Also if you intend to trade in your tractor you will get more money for a low hour machine.

In the real world having had hundreds of test machines operating mixed in customer fleets during a time span, often 2 years, prior to new product introduction I found that a typical large paving contractor will have a person start the engine of every machine in the fleet early in the day prior to all of the other crew members arriving on the job. The engines then run all day even if something in the chain of machines breaks down and everybody has to stop. Some operators do stop their engines, most don't.

After all this I don't believe there is a definitive answer. I know you can hear all kinds of expert opinions but having been involved with engine design and production from starting with a clean sheet of paper to analyzing the results after years of production the best answer I have is you can do whatever you want.

One extreme operation I still remember is a machine in one of my test fleets getting astounding fuel economy. I could tract all the machines in my test fleet from wherever in the world I happened to be and when I plotted daily hours and fuel used this particular machine stood out so I sent one of my guys to check the operation. The contractor was short of operators so they had split operation of 2 machines, a dozer and a vibratory compactor, between one operator. He would start both machines at the beginning of the day, then use the dozer to move material, switch to the compactor to do its job, then back to the dozer never shutting an engine down during the day. Lots of idle time for both machines. When I sold my test machines I didn't get any more money for this one because of its easy life. I sold it based on the hour meter.
 
   / Extended idling vs switching on and off #27  
The manual for my 2006 GMC Duramax says if more than one minute, shut it off. It starts so easy even in the Oklahoma winters, that I just use one battery, removed the second battery when it was new. Works for me.
 
   / Extended idling vs switching on and off #28  
Well a story told to me by a trucker in the late 80's was that the company was b*****ing at them about leaving the tractors running overnight as they slept in New England winters. (Low temps and happy truckers don't match up.)

So one of the truckers, who was also a mechanic, rigged up a five gallon gas tank to the fuel line with pictures and everything and idled it overnight. It used about a half-gallon of diesel. The next night he reset the setup and stayed in a motel for the night. He went out in the morning and started it up. It took about 3/4 gallon of diesel to start it up.

He then made a package and sent it to to the dispatchers and several others up the chain. After that they were allowed to idle overnight.

Like I said this is a story heard in passing, way back when. Nothing to back it up, but it seemed believable at the time.
 
   / Extended idling vs switching on and off #29  
The 2003 Ford 6.0L diesel I used to have would automatically kick up to a high idle when cold started. It would happen within 30 secs. to a minute after starting, and stay at high idle until the accelerator pedal was touched. My '11 Dodge Cummins with manual trans. doesn't do that, nor does it have a manual throttle control knob. I wish it did.

The 2005 Dodge Cummins had a high idle when below a certain temp, if you had an automatic transmission , not sure about the manual, you could go into the engine control computer and have the manual high idle enabled. For it to work had to be brake set, in park and you enabled and set cruise control buttons and used accel and decal buttons to change speed.

David Kb7uns

Did some more checking if you have a manual transmission you either need the clutch switch or grounding some pins an a harness depending on year for PTO applications.
 
   / Extended idling vs switching on and off #30  
The 2005 Dodge Cummins had a high idle when below a certain temp, if you had an automatic transmission , not sure about the manual, you could go into the engine control computer and have the manual high idle enabled. For it to work had to be brake set, in park and you enabled and set cruise control buttons and used accel and decal buttons to change speed.

David Kb7uns

Did some more checking if you have a manual transmission you either need the clutch switch or grounding some pins an a harness depending on year for PTO applications.

Oh! I guess I wasn't curious enough. :) Thanks, I will check that out. Might even read the manual. :eek:

It's due for a state inspection, so if I can't find specifics, I could ask when it's at the dealer. It would be nice to be able to start it and let it warm up at high idle.
 
 
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