Tractor Sizing Need advice on the size of tractor to look for

[MossRoad]

Nice looking machine, ETO. :thumbsup:

 

[murphy1244]

Nice looking machine, ETO. :thumbsup:

Get a room.

 

[IslandTractor]

I don't mean to rag on Eric (much) but I cannot buy his explanation that he is bumping over skidsteer tracks nor do I accept Moss's explanation.

Look at the video starting at about 55 seconds through 1:20 or so. YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZwojVPmgd4 The ground is smooth and until he hits an unseen object there is no camera jiggle. The tractor jolts to a stop. He then backs up and drives forward again with the exact same result. On the first attempt it sounded like the tractor might even stall and the tractor definitely came to a complete stop, it did not "bounce" over a rut. Anyone who clears brush knows that clumps of "saplings" are often shoots from an old stump so just ramming it without inspecting or even bothering to figure out where the contact point is is just asking for trouble.

I am persisting only because I think a lot of new owners watch these threads to learn how to do tasks associated with land clearing. The CUT can be used to clear land but like any tool there are proper and improper ways of using it. Eric shows us the "don't do it this way" approach. You use a knife to cut and you abuse a knife if you try to turn a screw with it. Same story here. Rather than pretending he was driving a bulldozer (his technique is fine for a real bulldozer with short fat "FEL" arms) he should have more gently explored the poorly visualized clump of saplings with the bucket and once he made contact at low speed and determined that the obstacle was midline on his bucket, he could have pushed slowly or better yet lifted/curled. It can be done safely with either a bucket and toothbar or preferably with a grapple but the key is that you DON'T RAM BLINDLY with a CUT FEL. A bulldozer rams because it is designed and built to do exactly that. A CUT FEL is designed and built to lift not ram. Simple concept. Little saplings are not the issue but anything that stops the tractor dead needs to be 1) properly identified, 2) line up so the object is mid bucket/grapple, 3) use the curl/lift power of the loader to pull the sapling/object out of the ground rather than simply pushing on it.

I think even Eric would agree that the technique he showed in the video is unlikely to be good for the tractor/FEL. A $35K tractor may be a toy that can be abused for some folks but if you want that tool to last and not be in the repair shop constantly, there are more appropriate techniques to use for clearing brush.

 

[hcforde]

I found a John Deere 302 with a FEL and scrapper for $4800 asking. It has 3300 hours with a 3 pt hitch and PTO. Any known pro's VS con's on this industrial tractor?

 

[IslandTractor]

I found a John Deere 302 with a FEL and scrapper for $4800 asking. It has 3300 hours with a 3 pt hitch and PTO. Any known pro's VS con's on this industrial tractor?

Never seen one but here are a few considerations: it is 2wd and only 4000 lbs. Not very heavy and traction might be an issue for land clearing duty. I cannot find info on loader lift and breakout numbers, those would be important and as an older tractor I imagine are not going to compare well with newer FELs. I'd want a bare minimum of 1500lbs lift and over 2000lbs would be much more efficient. 3300hrs on the engine is not a big deal so long as it's running well. I'd say overall that this tractor would certainly do the job as a bush hog mower (6 or 7ft medium duty) but I'd reserve judgment on whether it would be efficient at breaking out saplings and stumps that couldn't be mowed. If it runs well (make sure the loader can lift the front of the tractor and ideally the rear) it is a good price compared to what you would spend for even a used 20hp modern CUT with <1000lb loader lift.

(Edit: just saw that this tractor comes with either diesel or gas engine. I was assuming diesel. Not so sure about 3300hrs on a gasser though that would be cheaper to rebuild).

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I don't mean to rag on Eric (much) but I cannot buy his explanation that he is bumping over skidsteer tracks nor do I accept Moss's explanation.

Look at the video starting at about 55 seconds through 1:20 or so. YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZwojVPmgd4 The ground is smooth and until he hits an unseen object there is no camera jiggle. The tractor jolts to a stop. He then backs up and drives forward again with the exact same result. On the first attempt it sounded like the tractor might even stall and the tractor definitely came to a complete stop, it did not "bounce" over a rut. Anyone who clears brush knows that clumps of "saplings" are often shoots from an old stump so just ramming it without inspecting or even bothering to figure out where the contact point is is just asking for trouble.

I am persisting only because I think a lot of new owners watch these threads to learn how to do tasks associated with land clearing. The CUT can be used to clear land but like any tool there are proper and improper ways of using it. Eric shows us the "don't do it this way" approach. You use a knife to cut and you abuse a knife if you try to turn a screw with it. Same story here. Rather than pretending he was driving a bulldozer (his technique is fine for a real bulldozer with short fat "FEL" arms) he should have more gently explored the poorly visualized clump of saplings with the bucket and once he made contact at low speed and determined that the obstacle was midline on his bucket, he could have pushed slowly or better yet lifted/curled. It can be done safely with either a bucket and toothbar or preferably with a grapple but the key is that you DON'T RAM BLINDLY with a CUT FEL. A bulldozer rams because it is designed and built to do exactly that. A CUT FEL is designed and built to lift not ram. Simple concept. Little saplings are not the issue but anything that stops the tractor dead needs to be 1) properly identified, 2) line up so the object is mid bucket/grapple, 3) use the curl/lift power of the loader to pull the sapling/object out of the ground rather than simply pushing on it.

I think even Eric would agree that the technique he showed in the video is unlikely to be good for the tractor/FEL. A $35K tractor may be a toy that can be abused for some folks but if you want that tool to last and not be in the repair shop constantly, there are more appropriate techniques to use for clearing brush.

You're thinking too much. I see a wall of green. I'm using the BXpanded bolt on toothblade exactly the way it is supposed to be used on 2" and smaller material. Right before I made the video, as a test I sheared off a 3" pine like it wasn't even there. The stuff you see me hitting repeatedly is a stand of thick poplar. The loader has a breakout force approaching 5,000 pounds and can lift 2900 pounds all the way up. It is a much heavier loader than what is featured on smaller tractors. The whole point of the BXpanded piranha tooth bar is that it has a hardened, serrated, sharpened edge for cutting through material as demonstrated in the final section of their own demo video.

That said, bumping things out of the way is both slower and messier than rotary cutters because you wind up with a pile of dirt and unprocessed material at the end of each push that eventually needs to be cleaned up. I've found it is faster and takes less clean up using a heavy rotary cutter.

Additionally, for those who have paid attention to the My NX6010 thread in the Kioti section, you've probably figured out by now that I can likely fix anything at the Tinkerage.

 

[aginn]

Don't ever buy a tractor from me. The paint is bound to be scuffed. And I can't afford to hire a cat for what I do with the tractor. On the bright side. If I destroyed it today, it has already paid for itself and I ask no one else to pay for damages.

 

[IslandTractor]

You're thinking too much. I see a wall of green. I'm using the BXpanded bolt on toothblade exactly the way it is supposed to be used on 2" and smaller material. Right before I made the video, as a test I sheared off a 3" pine like it wasn't even there. The stuff you see me hitting repeatedly is a stand of thick poplar. The loader has a breakout force approaching 5,000 pounds and can lift 2900 pounds all the way up. It is a much heavier loader than what is featured on smaller tractors. The whole point of the BXpanded piranha tooth bar is that it has a hardened, serrated, sharpened edge for cutting through material as demonstrated in the final section of their own demo video.

That said, bumping things out of the way is both slower and messier than rotary cutters because you wind up with a pile of dirt and unprocessed material at the end of each push that eventually needs to be cleaned up. I've found it is faster and takes less clean up using a heavy rotary cutter.

Additionally, for those who have paid attention to the My NX6010 thread in the Kioti section, you've probably figured out by now that I can likely fix anything at the Tinkerage.

I don't believe I am overthinking this. The toothbar has nothing to do with ramming. You can dig and you can engage saplings with it but it doesn't turn the tractor into a bulldozer. It doesn't protect the FEL arms, only the bucket edge. I've use a toothbar, grapple, 4n1 and standard bucket. None of them are designed for ramming with a CUT. Try this experiment: stand ten feet from a wall and run towards it with your arms extended out front. What happens when you collide? Now, do the same thing (when you get back from the ER) by running into the wall with your shoulder as the contact point. That is the difference between a CUT FEL with long skinny arms and a bulldozer with short stubby arms. The bulldozer can do that all day long. The CUT cannot.

You have essentially the same loader I do on my DK40se. It is a very powerful loader and is designed to LIFT and CURL not to RAM. Use it the way it was intended and it will last a lot longer.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

It looked to me like the operator repeatedly rammed the tractor into an immovable object, perhaps lifting the rear wheels off the ground. At any rate, it bothered me that the vehicle was being used in such a manner...the shiny paint and uncracked windshield are surely no longer so pristine by now! All the giggling reminded me of my grandmother's saying, "he has more money than sense!"

You'll eventually break the steering knuckles on your front axels by repeatedly overloading the front end. Drill a hole, pour in your favorite accelerant with and a fuse, cap it and blow that stump. That, or if you're less adventurous, then Swedish log your stumps and let them burn themselves out.

The heaviest thing my loader has lifted is maneuvering my 20' car hauler trailer around at the lake property, which is to say that my loader has lived an easy life. I cannot say the same for the three point which already has play in the ball-ends of hydraulic top link and no apparent provision for replacement.

 

[hcforde]

(Edit: just saw that this tractor comes with either diesel or gas engine. I was assuming diesel. Not so sure about 3300hrs on a gasser though that would be cheaper to rebuild).

Yes it is diesel, with the FEL it is 6200 pounds. I guess the proper designation is 302A. Not sure what the box scrapper on the back weighs.

This is strange, to me anyways, it seems to go significantly faster in reverse (25mph) than forward (15mph) from the tractor data site in the transmission section. AM I reading this right?

Anyway the owner just called me to tell me it just got sold - must have been a good price as it was only on craigs list for 13 hours, mostly nighttime hours.