dadster4
Gold Member
If it is indeed leaking under the slab, it can be found using an ultrasonic leak detector. All leaks produce noise...we just can't hear them :muttering:
Where is the water going? Finding leaks in a slab house.
- Thread starter JimRB
- Start date
Thanks for the ideas. The house is rather messy outside. Some houses have shrubs, theirs has leaves, rotten OSB from other projects, and rusty grills. Great drama going on with a disillusioned boy of 38 years who never learned to take care of things including the house.
Anyhow the meter is turning on the gallons dial. Not spinning but moving. Yes the two boys were inside and only one toilet is turned on. The other toilet is turned off because it is not working correctly. Dye was used to test for toilet leaks.
I can't see where the hot water heater pressure relief valve is dumping. I should have placed my hand on the relief line to see if it was hot indicating a leak. I see it go downward and into the back wall of the garage which is common to the outside of the house. Old code did not require an expansion tank. The other water pipes seem to go or come up from the slab. No water pipes up in the ceiling area which does not work well in Atlanta where we get enough cold weather to freeze attic water pipes.
I do like the pressure guage on the hose bib, although we do know there is a leak somewhere as the water bill has been outrageous for a few months. Outrageous enough to probably pay a plumber for 2 hours of labor. Money is tight at that house with the husband doing stupid things like buying a jalopy Blazer to work on, never mind that he does not know how to wrench on anything. That Blazer would have paid for a plumber.
Anyhow that house is about 1.5 hours from my house. I was in the neighborhood yesterday working on something else and popped in. I shall update if and when they actually get a pro out to find and fix the problem.
Thanks again for the ideas.
Anyhow the meter is turning on the gallons dial. Not spinning but moving. Yes the two boys were inside and only one toilet is turned on. The other toilet is turned off because it is not working correctly. Dye was used to test for toilet leaks.
I can't see where the hot water heater pressure relief valve is dumping. I should have placed my hand on the relief line to see if it was hot indicating a leak. I see it go downward and into the back wall of the garage which is common to the outside of the house. Old code did not require an expansion tank. The other water pipes seem to go or come up from the slab. No water pipes up in the ceiling area which does not work well in Atlanta where we get enough cold weather to freeze attic water pipes.
I do like the pressure guage on the hose bib, although we do know there is a leak somewhere as the water bill has been outrageous for a few months. Outrageous enough to probably pay a plumber for 2 hours of labor. Money is tight at that house with the husband doing stupid things like buying a jalopy Blazer to work on, never mind that he does not know how to wrench on anything. That Blazer would have paid for a plumber.
Anyhow that house is about 1.5 hours from my house. I was in the neighborhood yesterday working on something else and popped in. I shall update if and when they actually get a pro out to find and fix the problem.
Thanks again for the ideas.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Try to turn off the water supply at the house and then watch the water meter. If the water meter is moving, the leak is between the meter and house supply valve, otherwise it is in th house. Our city house was on a slab and the house supply value was in the laundry room but at floor level. The supply valve in the country house is in the laundry room but easily seen above the cabinets. I would guess the water supply valve is in a direct line to the water meter.
We have PEX supplying the faucets. Big black pipe enters the house and then PEX is run from a central point. We don't have a manifold. We are on a slab and the PEX is in the attic under quite R40 insulation. We have had problems with the water freezing but not in the PEX but in the black supply line. This only happens when the temp goes to single digits and we now open the cabinet where the supply enters the house and put a themostat controled electric heater in front of the cabinet. This has stopped the freezing. :thumbsup:
Our water supplies to the sinks appear to be in the slab but they are not. The PEX runs down in the walls and to the water supply valves that are on the bottom of the base cabinets. If their water supply is in the attic then it would seem they would know that it was leaking.
Later,
Dan
We have PEX supplying the faucets. Big black pipe enters the house and then PEX is run from a central point. We don't have a manifold. We are on a slab and the PEX is in the attic under quite R40 insulation. We have had problems with the water freezing but not in the PEX but in the black supply line. This only happens when the temp goes to single digits and we now open the cabinet where the supply enters the house and put a themostat controled electric heater in front of the cabinet. This has stopped the freezing. :thumbsup:
Our water supplies to the sinks appear to be in the slab but they are not. The PEX runs down in the walls and to the water supply valves that are on the bottom of the base cabinets. If their water supply is in the attic then it would seem they would know that it was leaking.
Later,
Dan
DaveK OR
Silver Member
If the leak is under the slab, you have an expensive problem. It might even be cheaper to run a new water system than to fix the old one. The good news is that you have an excellent chance of locating the leak if you have a decent trouble-shooting decision tree.
In my situation, the leaks are in a 600 ft 2" PVC line that leads from the meter, then to a booster pump station, and then to the house. Whoever installed the line did a really lousy job of cementing joints, and after 40 years some of those joints are starting to fail. Worse, there is no record or other indication of just where that water line runs, so finding a leak even when you know it exists is a real challenge.
My project for this spring (or summer, if the spring is wet) is to replace that line with 2" black poly, with thermal-welded joints. At the same time, moving the pump station closer to the house so I don't need to pay $25 per month for a second electric meter on a system that uses maybe $2 of electricity. It will be interesting, since there is also a 25KV buried power line that runs to the transformer at my house. As long as they buried the power line a full 3 feet below grade, it should be easy, but there's no guarantee about that. The utility locator service will be put to the test here, I think.
In my situation, the leaks are in a 600 ft 2" PVC line that leads from the meter, then to a booster pump station, and then to the house. Whoever installed the line did a really lousy job of cementing joints, and after 40 years some of those joints are starting to fail. Worse, there is no record or other indication of just where that water line runs, so finding a leak even when you know it exists is a real challenge.
My project for this spring (or summer, if the spring is wet) is to replace that line with 2" black poly, with thermal-welded joints. At the same time, moving the pump station closer to the house so I don't need to pay $25 per month for a second electric meter on a system that uses maybe $2 of electricity. It will be interesting, since there is also a 25KV buried power line that runs to the transformer at my house. As long as they buried the power line a full 3 feet below grade, it should be easy, but there's no guarantee about that. The utility locator service will be put to the test here, I think.
TractorGuy
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I will second the suggestion to check with the home owners insurance.
If you have a hot water leak you might find it by feeling the floor in various locations. Another idea is to drill through the slab here and there with a masonry bit to see if the soil is moist underneath. That is if you plan to bust the slab out to repair it.
My house has copper under the slab and I dread the day it starts to leak. I will call the HOI first but if they don't cover it I plan to cut it all loose and route new cpvc along the outside. I figure I will enter at the base and insulate where it comes out of the ground. I will have to cut some sheetrock on the back side of the bathrooms to tie in and repair that afterwards. I have 1 bathroom that borders the outside and the master bath borders the garage so I can run it along the base in there.
If you have a hot water leak you might find it by feeling the floor in various locations. Another idea is to drill through the slab here and there with a masonry bit to see if the soil is moist underneath. That is if you plan to bust the slab out to repair it.
My house has copper under the slab and I dread the day it starts to leak. I will call the HOI first but if they don't cover it I plan to cut it all loose and route new cpvc along the outside. I figure I will enter at the base and insulate where it comes out of the ground. I will have to cut some sheetrock on the back side of the bathrooms to tie in and repair that afterwards. I have 1 bathroom that borders the outside and the master bath borders the garage so I can run it along the base in there.
Raspy
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I've dealt with insurance companies regarding underground leaks many times over the years. It's important how you approach them or they may turn down any claim.
Remember that homeowners insurance companies are in the business of dealing with sudden unexpected failures. Especially ones that can cause lots of incidental damage. They are not in the business of helping with old, worn out pipes that may have simply failed slowly with age.
Home warrantee companies are more for dealing with worn out items like garbage disposals, garage door openers, or heating system pumps, etc. But they have a limited monetary liability that is stated in their contract.
So, when you call your home owners insurance representative for help with an underground leak, be ready to speak their language. You want to tell them things like "I have a burst pipe and it's leaking a lot of water". They'll immediately ramp up with an emergency response team that is expecting your house to look like a fish aquarium when they arrive. But you tell them that there is no visible flooding and you've had a plumber out to confirm the problem and get things shut down. He has confirmed that there is a broken pipe under the house. Then ask them what they want you to do and let them start a claim. Don't offer any explanations. And most importantly of all DON'T start talking about how this is an old house and lots of things are wrong with it and the old pipes are worn out, etc. NO. This is a sudden failure that happened with no warning. Catch my drift? See the action words? Broken, burst, flood, no warning, sudden.
Copper water pipes under slabs often fail from corrosion. If this is the case and they dig down to fix it, the fix probably won't be very good as the corrosion will be widespread and will probably happen again. Meanwhile they have destroyed a bunch of flooring. So it might be better to re-plumb. They might not cover a re-plumb, but they might pay you and let you decide how to deal with it.
The repair will be paid minus your deductible. Your rates might be affected later. So if the total repair only costs $1000. and your deductible is $2,000. You won't get a thing from insurance and they'll have a case number to refer to later. It might be best to just leave them out of it.
If you have a representative that you know well, you might ask him the best course of action and let him take over. This is often true with insurance guys in rural areas where everybody know him and are friends.
Just know the game the best you can going in so you don't trip yourself up.
Remember that homeowners insurance companies are in the business of dealing with sudden unexpected failures. Especially ones that can cause lots of incidental damage. They are not in the business of helping with old, worn out pipes that may have simply failed slowly with age.
Home warrantee companies are more for dealing with worn out items like garbage disposals, garage door openers, or heating system pumps, etc. But they have a limited monetary liability that is stated in their contract.
So, when you call your home owners insurance representative for help with an underground leak, be ready to speak their language. You want to tell them things like "I have a burst pipe and it's leaking a lot of water". They'll immediately ramp up with an emergency response team that is expecting your house to look like a fish aquarium when they arrive. But you tell them that there is no visible flooding and you've had a plumber out to confirm the problem and get things shut down. He has confirmed that there is a broken pipe under the house. Then ask them what they want you to do and let them start a claim. Don't offer any explanations. And most importantly of all DON'T start talking about how this is an old house and lots of things are wrong with it and the old pipes are worn out, etc. NO. This is a sudden failure that happened with no warning. Catch my drift? See the action words? Broken, burst, flood, no warning, sudden.
Copper water pipes under slabs often fail from corrosion. If this is the case and they dig down to fix it, the fix probably won't be very good as the corrosion will be widespread and will probably happen again. Meanwhile they have destroyed a bunch of flooring. So it might be better to re-plumb. They might not cover a re-plumb, but they might pay you and let you decide how to deal with it.
The repair will be paid minus your deductible. Your rates might be affected later. So if the total repair only costs $1000. and your deductible is $2,000. You won't get a thing from insurance and they'll have a case number to refer to later. It might be best to just leave them out of it.
If you have a representative that you know well, you might ask him the best course of action and let him take over. This is often true with insurance guys in rural areas where everybody know him and are friends.
Just know the game the best you can going in so you don't trip yourself up.
I had a major water leak under the slab in my barn. Came out 1 morning and water was coming out under the main barn door. Turns out a stainless steel hose clamp WITH a carbon steel bolt had rotted loose underground. We ran a new line inside the old line and patched it into the rest of the building pipes. I also added extra street valves so I could isolate outdoor hydrants if more problems ever occurred. Maybe a smaller water line will do for you (them). If so, consider the smaller supply pipe. Is this all related to the other (nonworking) toilet ?
Larry Caldwell
Super Member
Water supply lines are never installed below the slab for exactly that reason. If there is a leak it's either a fixture like a leaking toilet, or it's in the line between the meter and the house. A leak inside the house would mean wet walls or ceiling.
Raspy
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"Water supply lines are never installed below the slab"? Huh? It's very common.
gwstang
Platinum Member
Might be best if the home owner would just cut the water valve off during times the water is not needed. Like at work or overnight. I can turn mine off with vice grips, only takes a second. There is a water cut off tool he can get at lowes etc. for about $10 or so that is about 3ft. long that makes it really easy to cut off. Then he can seek a better time for repairs in the near future without the outrageous bill. Shop Orbit Curb Key Tool at Lowes.com