Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16
  1. #1
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    15,368
    Location
    Prudence Island, RI
    Tractor
    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Why I decided a CK20 was not enough.


    Ok, here goes. This is my attempt to explain my recent decision to trade in my trusty CK20 on a tractor with double the weight, horsepower and loader. Being a card carrying member of the 電on稚 buy more horsepower than you need club and having disparaged the *et as big a tractor as you can afford school of thinking I think I need to explain myself.

    Firstly, my CK20 was and is a great tractor. I did not trade up because of any problem. Over two years I put about 150 hours on it clearing brush, taking down trees, carting logs/brush, bush hogging, mowing, digging up stumps, etc etc. I did that primarily on a 4 acre plot of abandoned pasture land that had been overgrown for at least 25 years or so. The job is nearly done now and it was virtually all accomplished with the CK20/KL120/KB2365, 48 Millonzi grapple and 48 Bush Hog. The CK20 never failed to start, never broke and it ran as well the day I traded it as the day I took possession. The only repairs I ever made were to replace a rear taillight housing that I smashed into a tree while bush hogging and repairing a PTO shaft I jammed, also while bush hogging. Essentially there were no problems that resulted in downtime. The KL120 loader developed cracks that I noted at about 70 hours (first time I checked) and they did extend some over the next 50 hours but I continued to use the loader aggressively. This tractor worked hard and only about 20% of the engine hours were simply mowing fields/grass. The rest was hard work.

    So, why did I move up? Well, the simple answer is that people saw me making such good progress at clearing overgrown land that I got more and more requests to help clear additional overgrown community conservation land and the total acreage kept increasing. I am a strong supporter of not only conserving land from over development but also of keeping it in something other than abandoned to Mother Nature and invasive species etc so it was hard not to help out with my equipment. The 都traw that broke the camel痴 proverbial back was my attempt to start clearing a 10-12 acre set of fields that had not been farmed or mowed for at least 15 years. I was actually working away at that task when I jammed my PTO shaft and while the tractor was 電own for a week or so I had time to reflect on what I was trying to do and whether the equipment was appropriate. I think the tractor was up to the task but the time it would have taken me compared to doing the work with a larger machine and implements lead me to reconsider. I was bemoaning my predicament when my wife made an innocent comment that maybe I needed a bigger tractor. No sweeter words were ever spoken and I was not foolish enough to ask her to confirm what she said. It did not take long to realize that for land clearing I mostly needed a larger FEL and I decided that it made sense to double the capacity of the CK20/KL120 rather than make an incremental change (who knows if she壇 ever be in the generous mood again). After some searching I was looking at the Kioti DK series, and the 35-42 hp equivalent kubota L and JD series HST machines. More about my choice in another post but the bottom line is that I replaced the CK20 with a DK40se equipped with KL401, Woods BH90x with mechanical thumb, dual remotes, hydraulic top link, diverter valve, QA bucket, sun shade, rear worklights and a new 75 Caroni flail mower. I知 keeping the Millonzi 48波rapple and added a barely used WRLong 4n1 bucket I stole off eBay for stupid money. There is a big difference in size?uite literally double or more the horsepower, weight, loader capacity and goodies. Traded the CK TLB and got Kioti痴 zero percent finance for the remainder which made it pretty painless.

    Bottom line was that the CK20 was more than adequate to clear and maintain the original 4 or 5 acre plot for which I bought it but it would have no longer been a pleasant weekend task to try to keep up with even twice yearly mowing of 20 plus acres on top of the initial clearing time. So, I upgraded. I was excited to see the new tractor arrive but actually quite sad to see the CK20 loaded onto the dealer痴 trailer and then disappear down the road. I壇 certainly recommend it to anyone caring for up to 5 or so acres and even a bigger plot if you have time. It is a tough well built tractor that served me very well.

    As part of a final reckoning, I値l try to give my pros and cons from two years/150hrs experience. This may ramble a bit but I hope it will help someone pondering the CK20 vs other tractors.

    Pros: Loader strength for 21 hp tractor which is really excellent and top of class at least compared to the big three 21 hp equivalents. 1070lbs lift at pivot pins is quite a lot for a 21hp tractor.(I did not consider moving up to a CK30/35 or even DK35se because there was not enough of a difference in loader capacity to justify the switch.) The view of work area with sloped hood/curved loader is great and I already miss it. Tractor reliability and tractor weight was a plus and helped in taking down trees and keeping things steady while transporting large loads in grapple. I liked the position control and would not want to be without it. I also grew to like the single HST pedal and am now having a little trouble adapting to separate pedals. It痴 hard to dissociate implements from the tractor as they work together and I壇 certainly give a big two thumbs up for the combo of the Millonzi 48 斗ight duty grapple matched with the CK20/KL120 and a 48 Bush Hog. That combo was a very effective and efficient brush killing and disposal team. Cost effective too. In case I haven稚 already mentioned it, the tractor never failed to start and always started easily.

    Cons: I never liked the two speed HST. The low range was fine for loader work and had good power but was too low for mowing and the high range was just too high for the weight and horsepower available. I could only mow on flat or downhill directions with the high range and could barely move the tractor when the backhoe was attached if I left it in high. My tires were loaded so that added to the weight but the bottom line was that high range was used very little. It was frustrating to mow in low all the time but that痴 what I did. I壇 have been happier with either a three range tranny or a lower geared high range. I don稚 think most people travel on the road for great distances on a 21 hp tractor so with a 2 range HST I壇 have preferred that the 塗igh range be geared more like the mid range in a 3 range tranny.

    Another con relates only to the Pre-2006 CK20s葉he seat and seat belt arrangement sucks. The seat is essentially a mower seat and the seatbelts are just loose and could fall into inconvenient crevices whenever you unbuckle. I added a stiff foam block under the seat which helped a bit and I replaced the seatbelts with aftermarket retractable seatbelts which worked fine. The newer CK20s have completely resolved this seat/seatbelt issue and the new arrangement with a nice suspension seat and retractable belts is quite satisfactory based on sitting in a new model in the dealer痴 lot. If the new seat did not cost over $600 as a replacement part I would have installed on one my tractor.

    Engine access is pretty good on the CK20 but I disliked the oil dipstick location as you just about had to kneel on the ground to see where to put it back into the tube. The oil filter is also a bit difficult to get a grip on and only the open jawed style oil filter wrenches can get adequate purchase. I didn稚 like the hydraulic fluid dipstick being right at my left heel next to the differential lock pedal either. I had a little trouble with inconsistent readings on the dipstick if I read it before starting the engine (showing low when it wasn稚) which led me to twice overfill the hydraulic fluid reserve. Not a disaster but messy and a pain because I usually do my fluid level checks before starting the engine.

    The KB2365 backhoe was effective and powerful but the older style control valves were hard to feather and I did not like the too fast swing rate at all. I never got around to installing reducing bushings to slow the swing speed but that would certainly have helped. I understand the control valves are different on the newer KB2365s and the KB2465 but don稚 know about the swing speed issue on the newer BHs. The BH could drag the tractor around until I installed a set of dirt pads (I think they are called Big Feet) which solved that problem nicely. I did not really mind the Kioti subframe but it is not as convenient as the Woods. If there were no significant difference in price I壇 probably get a Woods BH-70x rather than the Kioti BH just for that reason but the BH2365 certainly did work well so I don稚 really have any major complaints about it. Well, I do have one safety related complaint about the version I had (older style)?f you flip the seat up when you are attaching the BH to gain access to the hydraulic connections, you can inadvertently put the weight of the seat on the control sticks which will immediately activate the backhoe dipper or other functions. The first time I did that I had the tractor engine off then started the tractor with the remote valve engaged?the rear of my tractor was suddenly rising off the ground and (not having a clue what was happening). As I had no clue what was happening I could only stop it by shutting off the engine. The BH seat had activated the controls. If I had been unlucky it might have actually tipped the tractor over and caused a major ouch. I learned the lesson so it didn稚 happen again but it seems a silly thing to have engineered the seat and controls that way.

    I had a set of rear hydraulic remotes and used them to control the grapple. I liked the arrangement and it was cheaper than installing a diverter valve (though the cost would be a wash if you did not have the remotes already). I have a diverter valve on the new tractor for the simple reason that I got a used one as part of an ebay 4n1 bucket purchase. I like that too but don稚 really see any major advantage to one system over the other. The diverter seems like it would be more convenient as you don稚 need to move your hand but in practice dropping your hand to the remote valve was so easy that it was like reaching for the shifter on a 4speed manual car transmission and it just became automatic. I may not be used to the diverter valve yet but I am having difficulty avoiding unintended curl/dump when I let go of the diverter button after opening or closing the grapple. I suppose I should just be careful about letting the control return to neutral before letting go but that is not as natural as just letting go. In any case there are no big advantages either way from my perspective and I壇 be happy with either system for controlling a grapple.

    The biggest and most annoying 祖on associated with owning the CK20 was finding out how lame Kioti customer service is. The personnel are polite but the loader cracking issue showed some major cracks in the corporate attitude towards customers. I never got mine fixed partly because I never got a letter from Kioti and partly because they were playing a cover the corporate ***** game rather than simply fessing up that they had a problem. I don稚 live near any dealer and did not want to transport my tractor at well over $500 expense to myself just to have the dealer turn a few bolts. I asked Kioti customer service repeatedly for permission to do the install myself and was ignored. Overall their management of the loader issue was a case study in how not to do it. It took months and months to get them to acknowledge a problem and then about six more months before they even announced a fix. The fix was then flawed and they still did not see that they were hurting themselves by being uncommunicative and sticking their heads in the sand. I致e complained a lot before on TBN about this corporate management style so I won稚 elaborate here but that was the single worst thing about owning the CK20. Although I did eventually decide to get another Kioti, that was despite my experience with Korporate Kioti and reflects simply my ultimate confidence in the tractors themselves and also a very helpful new dealer. It also reflects the fact that if you compare a discounted Kioti to an equally discounted green or other orange tractor of the same horsepower and features the Kioti has a pretty impressive value advantage. The value difference was impressive enough that I will tolerate having useless corporate customer service. I値l let my dealer hassle with them from now on.

    So, there you have it. The end of my personal CK20 experience. It was a great ride and I値l miss it every time I知 doing something that does not require the brute strength of the DK.

    I値l post on my preliminary experiences with the DK40se soon.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,307
    Location
    In the palm of Michigan's Lower Peninsula
    Tractor
    Kioti CK30HST, KL130 FEL, turf tires

    Default Re: Why I decided a CK20 was not enough.

    I was bemoaning my predicament when my wife made an innocent comment that maybe I needed a bigger tractor. No sweeter words were ever spoken and I was not foolish enough to ask her to confirm what she said.


    Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!


    Could you summerize everything past: ".......I was not foolish enough to ask her to confirm what she said."
    I totally lost my concentration after that point.

    CONGRATS!! ....on the new (and much larger) tractor.

    Don

  3. #3
    Elite Member
    Rest in Peace
    MrJimi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,504
    Location
    NorthEast, Florida
    Tractor
    Case 1845 C Skid steer

    Default Re: Why I decided a CK20 was not enough.

    It, it sounds like you lost a great friend and now you have a new one
    you can do it
    be strong
    Click here for my current weather

    Case 1845C with dirt bucket, forks, 3 point quick hitch on the front, 30'. boom, 6 & 1/2 foot disc harrow, 5 foot Howse RC, root and tree bucket and Grouser tracks and a Ford F-550 pick up,7.3 Turbo with Auto and a Crosley 25' X 8'.6" X 14 K D/O trailer.
    PDF files don't like me !!
    Making a F-550 Pick Up thread
    My Gallery
    My other Gallery
    Revielle video here
    Dear Eliot

  4. #4
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    103
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Tractor
    CK20HST

    Default Re: Why I decided a CK20 was not enough.

    Thanks for taking the time to post that. Some of your earlier posts played a part in my decision to be a CK20HST. I only have 40 hours on the little beast and am quite happy so far. I look forward to your posts on the new rig,,,

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Oleozz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,547
    Location
    Pa.
    Tractor
    International 1066 with Year Round Cab, Kioti DK 45S with Cab, 451 Loader

    Default Re: Why I decided a CK20 was not enough.

    Good luck, what's with all the strange symbols in your message or is my computer going goofy??
    "Land management is an art that builds on history and is based in science." Herb Stoddard Sr.

  6. #6
    Gold Member RexB's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    302
    Location
    Northwest WA.
    Tractor
    CK30HST TLB, John Deere 350 'dozer

    Default Re: Why I decided a CK20 was not enough.

    I don't usually like reading long posts but that was a great review of a good tractor, thanks! And you know your tractors so those experiences reinforced the great work this coyote is doing for me too.

    "...More about my choice in another post but the bottom line is that I replaced the CK20 with a DK40se equipped with KL401, Woods BH90x with mechanical thumb, dual remotes, hydraulic top link, diverter valve, QA bucket,..."

    Woot! you're kicking some tail with that setup, and congrats on your landcareimprovement work growing. You sound like you're loving staying in the tractor saddle and working the land
    Kioti CK30HST, KL130b loader, KB2375 hoe, Rankin auger
    added forklift tines, bucket hooks, brush screen, TOPS, gallery

  7. #7
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    15,368
    Location
    Prudence Island, RI
    Tractor
    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Re: Why I decided a CK20 was not enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oleozz
    Good luck, what's with all the strange symbols in your message or is my computer going goofy??
    Sorry about that. I should have checked before sending the post. I composed the post in Word while on an airplane and then cut and pasted. never had trouble with that sort of thing before. Additionally there is some sort of automated censor that inserts **** if you use toilet humor. Remember, this is a family channel. Lots of little girls read TBN before going to bed.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Oleozz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,547
    Location
    Pa.
    Tractor
    International 1066 with Year Round Cab, Kioti DK 45S with Cab, 451 Loader

    Default Re: Why I decided a CK20 was not enough.

    I remember quite a few comments you have made about how nice it would be to have a DK 45, which probably outsells the 40 by a wide margin. What made you pick the 40 over the 45?
    "Land management is an art that builds on history and is based in science." Herb Stoddard Sr.

  9. #9
    Platinum Member Killer_B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    578
    Location
    Kalamazoo Michigan
    Tractor
    John Deere 3320

    Default Re: Why I decided a CK20 was not enough.

    Great post, Islandtractor! You covered everything from the dipstick location to corporate customer service philosophy.

    Enjoy your new tractor!

  10. #10
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    15,368
    Location
    Prudence Island, RI
    Tractor
    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Re: Why I decided a CK20 was not enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oleozz
    I remember quite a few comments you have made about how nice it would be to have a DK 45, which probably outsells the 40 by a wide margin. What made you pick the 40 over the 45?
    First I wanted HST so the DK45s was not seriously considered. I picked the DK40se over the DK45se because it had the same loader (my primary objective). Frankly I would have bought the DK35se if it was available with the KL401 loader but the KL351 loader has much less power (less than 1500lbs at pivot points compared to 2700 with the KL401). I did not really need even 40hp to run a 6ft mower or BH so it was really the loader that decided which size tractor. Also, the 45se was about $2K more than the 40se so from my perspective the "sweet spot" was the DK40se.
    Last edited by IslandTractor; 08-23-2007 at 11:25 AM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
© 2013 TractorByNet.com. TractorByNet is a registered trademark of IMC Digital Universe, Inc. Other trademarks on this page are the property of their respective owners.