Backhoe hydraulic plumbing

[IslandTractor]

Are you guys in some sort of backhoe digging contest or marathon where every little bit of performance needs to be squeezed out of the machine?

Using the rear remotes for supply and return works beautifully. No muss no fuss. Why use anything else?

 

[BJN644]

Are you guys in some sort of backhoe digging contest or marathon where every little bit of performance needs to be squeezed out of the machine?

Using the rear remotes for supply and return works beautifully. No muss no fuss. Why use anything else?

Running the return line directly into the transmission sump is how an engineer at Woods recommended I run the plumbing. It's mainly to reduce heat build up in the fluid than to gain performance.

 

[IslandTractor]

Running the return line directly into the transmission sump is how an engineer at Woods recommended I run the plumbing. It's mainly to reduce heat build up in the fluid than to gain performance.

I understand but unless you are stressing your BH for hours at a time heat build up is just not an issue. If you are using the BH that aggressively then IMO you should have a dedicated BH or mini excavator.

Not sure why Woods would recommend what you are planning over what they know is a much more common and simple hydraulic set up using remotes. Was it Woods or a lone salesperson who advised you?

 

[BJN644]

I understand but unless you are stressing your BH for hours at a time heat build up is just not an issue. If you are using the BH that aggressively then IMO you should have a dedicated BH or mini excavator.

Not sure why Woods would recommend what you are planning over what they know is a much more common and simple hydraulic set up using remotes. Was it Woods or a lone salesperson who advised you?

It was actually a salesman that started this whole thing, he was a kubota dealer and insisted that running a hoe through the remotes would cause all kinds of problems. So, instead of arguing with him I called Woods tech support and they said to plumb it this way, I didn't mention my conversation with the salesman so there was no opinion swaying. Kioti sells a direct return kit so there must be some validity to it.

 

[dfkrug]

I understand but unless you are stressing your BH for hours at a time heat build up is just not an issue. If you are using the BH that aggressively then IMO you should have a dedicated BH or mini excavator.

Actually, Ed, it is not an aggressive or excessive use of a CUT backhoe
attachment to just do some trenches for several hours at a time. I have
done hundreds of feet of trench over the years, but that is not my
primary use. The oil gets very warm using the hoe steadily for an hour or
more. Too warm? Maybe not. I think many CUT hoe users will want to do
some long trenches or big holes.

For my own tasks, I rarely operate the hoe for hours at a time, so the
work port power approach is not a problem. But in setting up a hoe for
a tractor from scratch, I think it is important to know the best ways of
doing it and the tradeoffs you make. And, if you are starting from scratch,
it may be no extra effort to do it the best possible way.

I like to learn by trying things myself or seeing first hand how the different
approaches work. I think it is important to mention another plumbing
approach here. That is, the approach used on my B21, which is also used on
other TLBs. What they do there is provide a driver-accessible manual
diverter valve that switches the hoe loop in and out of the power beyond
circuit downstream of the FEL valve, without having any QD fittings in
the circuit except when the hoe is attached. This is probably the
ideal setup.

 

[IslandTractor]

I understand that there may be a logic and alternative for direct return plumbing, I have just never seen an example of poor performance related to rear remote use. As rear remotes are already present and have additional uses, I'd need more convincing to pay more or accept less convenient alternatives.

Heat build up with BH cannot be any worse than with plowing or other high power activities especially as most of us use the BH at 1500-1800 rpm or well below PTO or max output levels.

 

[BJN644]

You have to get that dealer to install that backhoe properly. The hydraulic lines are also not installed correctly. I normally would not say anything about another dealer, but this is not a very good representation of us who strive to do things right. Check with your dealer and have him check with Kioti on the correct installation of those hydraulics. The return line must be routed into the return tube with the kit supplied with the backhoe and a new vent has to be installed in the side of the case to the left of the top link mount. This may not help the HST noise but it will allow your hydraulic system and backhoe to work properly.

I copied this quote from a dealer on a post for an unrelated issue. I believe this is the kit that Michigan Iron posted.

 

[IslandTractor]

I copied this quote from a dealer on a post for an unrelated issue. I believe this is the kit that Michigan Iron posted.

No question that you can directly plumb the return but good dealers also use simply the rear remotes. Why pay extra for the optional Kioti kit when the rear remotes do the job?

 

[kattywumpus]

I just had an on site conversation with a Kioti product support engineer yesterday. His statement concerning direct return through fill port was if you're a weekend warrior using the remote port should be fine for a backhoe. If you're a contractor or a heavy user of the backhoe the direct return should be used to avoid long term damage due to back pressure. Hopefully I have my information correct, but I clearly remember him stating the direct return was not intended to resolve overheating issues and the remotes work fine for most owners. I hope this helps.

 

[IslandTractor]

I just had an on site conversation with a Kioti product support engineer yesterday. His statement concerning direct return through fill port was if you're a weekend warrior using the remote port should be fine for a backhoe. If you're a contractor or a heavy user of the backhoe the direct return should be used to avoid long term damage due to back pressure. Hopefully I have my information correct, but I clearly remember him stating the direct return was not intended to resolve overheating issues and the remotes work fine for most owners. I hope this helps.

That makes a lot of sense to me. I certainly fit into the weekend warrior category and can attest to the convenience and adequacy of the rear remote solution.