CS2410 won't start!

[Jgilbert]

I have a cs2410 with only 119 hours on it. When I turn the switch, lights come on including glow plug which turn off like normal. I also hear the clicking sound. When I continue to turn to start,it does nothing but the clicking keeps going.

So far here's what I have done.

- taken switch out, tested with ohm meter, didn't get any continuity on start but all others.
- took switch back to dealer to get a new one. Installed it and still won't start. Tells me either switch was good or now something else is wrong.
- battery gives me 12.04V on meter. Solenoid gives me 12.04V as well.
- tried to boost using my truck, nothing.
- tried to cross solenoid to jump starter. Get spark but no starter turns.
- checked start and engine fuses, good.
- of course it is in neutral.

I'm lost at what it could be now. I haven't been able to take dash off as I do not have a steering wheel puller to do that so I'm just squeezing my hands in to work behind the firewall.

I'm not a mechanic and my dealer is not close by.

Thanks for the help. I need my tractor for snow removal now

 

[ShowroomShine]

Seat safety, PTO safety, gear safety etc. Your problem sounds like a safety, check out the seat first. I know on mine I have to be seated fully on the seat for it to start.

 

[ritcheyvs]

...gives me 12.04V on meter. Solenoid gives me 12.04V as well. ...

Well, 12.04 V is a bit low (should be 12.5 or better) but maybe the battery is just s bit low.

.... - tried to boost using my truck, nothing. ...

This suggests the battery isn't the main problem (assuming good jumper cables). Then again, maybe the jumper cables just couldn't supply enough current.

... - tried to cross solenoid to jump starter. Get spark but no starter turns. ...

Assuming you mean you jumped from the big terminal to the small terminal on the starter solenoid, this is conclusive. Quit messing with the starter logic, fuses, and safeties. You have one of three problems: (1) bad battery cable (positive or ground), (2) bad battery, or (3) bad starter (or solenoid). Hopefully it's a cable (or cable ground connection), which is cheapest and easiest to fix.

Here's what to do. Get a helper or long meter leads to watch the voltage across the actual battery terminals as you attempt to crank the starter. If the battery is good, the battery voltage should not go below about 9-10 volts. Assuming the battery checks OK, measure the voltage between the starter big terminal and the engine block as you attempt to crank the starter. It should also stay above 9-10 volts. If it doesn't you have a cable problem. If this voltage at the starter stays high (say 10 volts or better) the starter (or start solenoid) is bad.

I should add that there were several reports of bad battery cables which failed under the insulation so the cable still appeared fine. There were also some problems where the ground cable connects to the engine and where the cables connect to the battery terminal connectors.

The quick test for the ground cable is to bypass it with a jumper cable (battery negative to bare metal on the chassis or engine). You can do the same on the positive cable (jump battery positive to the big starter terminal) but be VERY careful not to short battery positive to any other part of the tractor.

 

[Jgilbert]

Thanks for the help so far.

This is the update:

Battery now at 11.90V likely from trying to. Fix it for a while. 11.9V at solenoid on starter (on red and frame).

Turn ignition battery. Goes down to 11.45 V
With solenoid, goes down to 11.45V as well

Checked start relay. Should be 84 ohms I get 74.2 not sure if that drop is still ok.

And by crossing i did mean from red pole on start solenoid to frame.

I checked the engine stop solenoid. I cant measure because it is contracted inside. I turn ignition on,stays the same. Tried to test volts on wire coming in with meter, meter all over the place so possible wiring issue thete?

 

[Jgilbert]

Also checked neutral safety has continuity and pto safety is depressed.

 

[ritcheyvs]

... Battery now at 11.90V likely from trying to. Fix it for a while. 11.9V at solenoid on starter (on red and frame).

Turn ignition battery. Goes down to 11.45 V
With solenoid, goes down to 11.45V as well

Checked start relay. Should be 84 ohms I get 74.2 not sure if that drop is still ok. ...

I think you are saying you have 11.9v at the battery and the big terminal on the starter with the switch off. These voltages should be the same (those two points directly connected by battery cable) unless a LOT of current is flowing from the battery. But 11.9v is low indicating your battery needs to be charged. I assume the 11,45 volts was measured with the key switch on and the glow plugs heating? The voltages should drop somewhat lower with the glow plugs drawing current so that sounds normal for a battery with low charge. I assume you measured the coil resistance of the relay; if so, 84 ohms vs 74 ohms is not significant.

...
And by crossing i did mean from red pole on start solenoid to frame.
...

What? You shorted the big terminal on the starter solenoid to chassis ground!!! WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. That's the same as shorting across the battery! The correct test is to jump from the big terminal on the starter solenoid to the small starter solenoid terminal. That bypasses all the start logic and safety interlocks and should spin the starter if the battery, cables, and starter are OK.

... I checked the engine stop solenoid. I cant measure because it is contracted inside. ...

Don't even worry about the stop solenoid until you sort out the starter. Frankly, if you can hear the stop solenoid click (usually quite pronounced) when you turn the key switch on and off, the stop solenoid is probably OK.

Scott

 

[TJP89]

Your physical symptoms sound just like when I forget to depress the clutch, everything works, turn to crank, nothing.

The battery is a little low, but by no means dead, so it's probably not that. Charge the battery and see if that makes a difference though. properly check the starter, but I would guess it's not that. Solenoid seems to be working. I forget if there is a clutch on your tractor, if there is check that switch, as well as the gear switch.

If it's not those, check wiring to the starter, I had a tire chain cut the negative lead from the battery on my lawn tractor once, took me awhile to figure out why it wouldn't start.

If none of the above works, its probably componet related.

If your tractor is still under warranty (should be if bought new), take it to the dealer and let them worry about it.

 

[ritcheyvs]

I just uploaded this to show the right way to test the starter (and battery and cables) by bypassing the start logic and safeties:

http://brute-force test

 

[Gary in NJ]

Great tutorial. Well written and illustrated.

 

[Jgilbert]

Update.

For some reason, the glow plug no longer lights. No idea why as it was working last time I tried the tractor but nothing now.

Still won't turn with key.

As someone mentioned, I was able to jump the solenoid with a wire from the red pole to the black wire harness. Now the engine turns, it does not start but it turns. I am told this bypasses the safeties.

So now what?

I've checked continuity on the gear and pto safety and both give me continuity so I think it means good. Seat safety, not really sure how to test that.

I appreciate all the help, been over 2 weeks now, really need this started.