Probably IP Gear (Control Sleeve) Failure

[ritcheyvs]

Two days ago, my 2006 DK45s started doing odd things, which are probably caused by broken IP gear teeth. The clock read 505 hours (tach hours)at the time. I ordered new control sleeves through Conestoga ($150 delivered). Conestoga was not the cheapest but they are the closest (of known sources) and they were the folks that first told me that these IPs were easily repairable (vs a new $1500 IP from Kioti), at least for this failure. When I open the IP next week I'll know the exact cause but the tractor sort-of runs now so I'll await parts before opening it up.

I mention this here because my symptoms were not typical. Typically, this failure causes the IP rack to jam solidly in the OFF position or at some high RPM. Mine just acted like the IP rack was "sticky". Cycling the Stop Solenoid apparently slapped the rack enough to unstick it.

At first, the tractor would crank fine but not start; After cycling the key to off and back to on/crank a few times got it started. It idled OK for a few seconds, then revved to 2000 rpm, and then died. After several more starts and keeping the RPM up with the hand throttle it ran fine while I mowed for a few hours. It died when I idled back from higher RPM but easily restarted each time. One time (as I was putting the tractor away) it jammed at a high RPM and I had to stall the engine with the clutch to stop it.

I believe there are broken teeth near the idle/off position on at least one control sleeve gear which caused the rack to stick in the OFF (zero fuel) position whenever the rack moved there, such as a sudden "throttle" change from higher RPM to lower RPM.

My current quandary is: should I (1) try to do the work in the lean-to shed with the loader on, (2) try to get the loader off (but I don't have a hard level spot), or (3) raise the loader full up and prop it against a tree to get it out of the way? I think I can get the engine to run enough to do #2 and #3.

 

[countrybumpkin]

When I did my friends , I had the loader off, I even removed the hood. Just makes access to all the injector lines and such , way more simple.

 

[VictorW]

I've taken my loader off on a not to level spot and it just takes a little playing to get it back on. I think you'll appreciate the loader off so you can work more easily.

 

[Kioti Paul]

When I did mine (also at about 500 hrs), I left my loader on, raised all the way up, and I don't recall it being in the way. My loader has always been real good about not bleeding down at all, if you do leave the loader on, it would probably be a good idea to prop it up, if you think there is any chance it may bleed down (it would then certainly be in the way).

I also removed the hood; probably not terribly important, but also not a big deal to remove.

Good Luck!!

 

[747driver]

Now that is a bummer ! Is this a known Kioti problem with so few hrs. ? I would error on the safety side and take the loader off.....

 

[ritcheyvs]

Now that is a bummer ! Is this a known Kioti problem with so few hrs. ? I would error on the safety side and take the loader off.....

Driver; This IP gear failure problem seems to effect only 2005-2008 CK and DK models with the newer stop solenoid. This spreadsheet shows known failures reported previously on TBN.

Many of the lower HP models still had the old stop solenoid during most of this period and they are not vulnerable. Likewise, later models are not effected. The IP builder (Doowan) apparently made a change that fixed the problem. These agricultural IPs (originally a Bosch design) are manufactured by Doowan under license to Zexel, which is the new name for Bosch fuel systems.

 

[Coyote machine]

Ritcheyvs,
Sorry to hear your Kioti seems to be suffering the pump rack failure. Can you give us a detailed breakdown with lots of pics from beginning to end, please?
And, FWIW, I'd opt for loader removal, this way it's not in your way.

Thanks,

CM

 

[ritcheyvs]

Many thanks for the multiple recommendations to remove the loader. Since I could get the tractor to run (sounded like one cylinder not firing) I drove to relatively flat spot and removed the loader. I put pieces of plywood under the legs because I was working on dirt and it may rain before this is over. Removal was much easier than I expected, possibly because I had greased the pins in the past. The hydraulic quick couplers required some light taps with a hammer as they had not been disconnected since 2006. Any color marks on those couplers were long gone so I used zero, one, two, or three zip ties to mark the corresponding couplers. Finally, I pressure-washed the engine to remove most of the crud before opening anything up. I was very fortunate that I could still run the engine to move the tractor and remove the loader.

I am working alone and I think the hood is too heavy/awkward for me to remove/install it by myself. But I think I can just tie it to the roll bar with piece of rope to hold it out of the way. The intake manifold is also the support for the gas strut that holds the hood up so I'll have to either remove or support the hood before I can remove the intake manifold. Otherwise, the IP removal doesn't look like a bad job. I did wonder about the intake manifold gasket; specifically if it will need to be replaced?

Obviously any other insights will be appreciated. I expect to begin work on this on Monday.

 

[LouNY]

Since you got your loader off this isn't going to be of any help today but,
what I do too block most hydraulic cylinders to work on things being supported by them is cut a piece of angle iron 1 1/2 or 2" of the length to lay on the rod and just fit
from the cylinder to the frame of the loader or implement release the pressure so that the angle iron has the load and acts as the safety bar.
Good luck with your injection pump.

 

[Coyote machine]

Since you got your loader off this isn't going to be of any help today but,
what I do too block most hydraulic cylinders to work on things being supported by them is cut a piece of angle iron 1 1/2 or 2" of the length to lay on the rod and just fit
from the cylinder to the frame of the loader or implement release the pressure so that the angle iron has the load and acts as the safety bar.
Good luck with your injection pump.

He's referring to the hood hold gas cylinder, not the loader hydraulic cylinders.

As far as the intake gasket I'd order one since the original has been on since 2006. If you need it you're not going to wait for it; if you don't use it it's because you ordered it in advance. :confused2:
I'd spray any nuts/bolts you need to remove now and then run the tractor a while to heat things up just a little before trying to remove them on Monday.
Also, put some score marks for realignment of the IP now so when you're at point of reassembly its easy to install. Apply brake and chock your wheels so there is no chance of movement, and place trans in neutral so the engine position can't change before/during teardown. Remove key and negative battery cable clamp, and place aside for later reconnection.

 

[countrybumpkin]

He's referring to the hood hold gas cylinder, not the loader hydraulic cylinders.

Read the first line again, he knows he has the loader off, he was telling him this for future reference.

 

[Coyote machine]

Read the first line again, he knows he has the loader off, he was telling him this for future reference.

No Need, but thanks for telling me what I already read and knew anyway. :confused2:

 

[countrybumpkin]

Say what you want.

 

[LouNY]

My current quandary is: should I (1) try to do the work in the lean-to shed with the loader on, (2) try to get the loader off (but I don't have a hard level spot), or (3) raise the loader full up and prop it against a tree to get it out of the way? I think I can get the engine to run enough to do #2 and #3.

From the OP's , post #1, he was wondering about taking the loader off or working under it.

So, yes say what you want but read before you say
Not the hood hold cylinder strut
:irked:

 

[countrybumpkin]

Now back to the repair.

I had to reuse the intake gasket on the one I did but if it were me I’d replace it. Removal of the pump is pretty straight forward, no timing issues to keep track of or anything, you could actually crank the engine over with the injection pump removed and not mess the timing up, no reason to crank it over though. The most important part is to keep all parts of each plunger together, don’t mix parts of one plunger with another plunger.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Here is a write up of a repair.

IP Removal

 

[ritcheyvs]

Thanks all for your continuing help.

I expect the IP parts to arrive today or Monday. The tractor is parked under a tin-roof lean-to because we expect rain starting Monday.

I ordered an intake gasket from MIE; waiting for that gasket that may delay reassembly. I also ordered a loader leg foot to replace one that went missing. For now, I put a steel plate under that leg so it wouldn't punch through the plywood. I just wish I ordered both parts at the same time as MIE charges about $17 per order for shipping; my bad, not theirs. I noticed that several of my old links for mail order Kioti parts no longer work. I wonder if Kioti ever replaced the dealers they lost? I don't mind saying that I was quite upset when my nearby Kioti dealer lost his franchise.

While I have the loader off I plan to mount the diverter valve I got from Brian. I didn't have space to do this jobs with the loader mounted. Then it will just be a matter of ordering hoses and running wires.

Thanks for the tip on using angle iron as a safety for a raised loader. Not a factor for this job now but it will make future routine maintenance much safer.

On this particular DK45s model there is a gas strut (like on some auto hatches) that helps lift the hood and hold it in the up position. The bottom pivot for this strut is a bracket that's bolted to the intake manifold. So I need to support the hood another way to remove the manifold. My tentative plan is to loop a piece of rope through the holes in the sides of the hood and tie it back to the roll bar. Hood removal is probably better but I don't think I can manage that solo. I envy the guys with hoists.

I'll take photos along the way but don't expect anything to rival the excellent Neches write up.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Status Report: I removed the IP today and took photos along the way. I visually confirmed that the #4 control sleeve gear is missing teeth. I'll rebuild the IP tonight or tomorrow. The intake manifold gasket tore so I'm glad I ordered a new one. The oil fill plate gasket tore but I'll live with it or make one DIY. The biggest problem was getting one of the stop solenoid screws lose. All the other screws were still under original paint and came lose easily. That SS nut rounded off and I had to chisel it lose (need to replace that nut). On the flip side that same paint on the injector lines made the flare nuts hard to remove; (binding on paint).

I owe many thanks to countrybumpkin and thepumpguysc for information and advice that probably prevented screwups on my part.

 

[Coyote machine]

From the OP's , post #1, he was wondering about taking the loader off or working under it.

So, yes say what you want but read before you say
Not the hood hold cylinder strut
:irked:

Wrong again, sorry to point it out but you seem to insist you're right, when you're actually late to the game. The OP had already dealt with and queried about the loader dilemma, in his first post. He decided to remove it. He did so- then you came in with your, described as 'future reference' solution, (by Bumkin), after the fact.

Ritchyvs later mentioned the hood hold strut being attached to the intake manifold, Here: Post #8" I am working alone and I think the hood is too heavy/awkward for me to remove/install it by myself. But I think I can just tie it to the roll bar with piece of rope to hold it out of the way. The intake manifold is also the support for the gas strut that holds the hood up so I'll have to either remove or support the hood before I can remove the intake manifold.

He also queried about whether or not to replace the intake gasket, which I suggested he do - having had years of experience dealing with baked on gaskets, when I owned my foreign auto repair and sales shop. That's what I was referring" to; he was no longer concerned about the loader- all but you, and Bumkin had moved on to the later post about the hood and intake, etc. In fact he, the OP refers to the hood strut once again being a concern since he's working alone and has to manage heavy objects like the hood by himself in post #17. NOW we can all return to the repair - which encompasses solving all issues of disassembly and reassembly to completion.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Oh my gosh will you drop it, your the one making the big deal out of it. He stated in his original post about securing the loader was for future reference because he knew OP had already had the loader removed !!!