Kubota GR2100 Dead Tranny - Sell As is or Fix & Sell

[Venturabass]

I'm looking for some opinions here.

I have a 2007 Kubota GR2100 w/the D782 diesel engine, 54" mid mount mower, and 47" snowblower. I bought it as the 2nd owner in 2011 at 180 hours, great deal at $5,100 from someone moving across country and had to let it go. I also bought the snowblower new in 2011 from the local dealer for somewhere around $2,400. Currently, the machine has 350 hours on it. The machine cosmetically and mechanically is in great shape, and I've take great care of it, with one HUGE exception. Just a few weeks ago my PTO stopped working. Brought it into the dealer who tore apart the transmission and found the housing around the PTO clutch inside the transmission had shattered.

I've read all the threads here and on the internet and have concluded this tranny had huge design flaws from the start. After several attempts with Kubota regional managers, they're not willing to cover any of the expense of the repair due to age and being the 2nd owner. Normally I wouldn't blame them, but this is a thorn in my side due to the known problems! The machine is in the shop where it's been for 3 weeks while I've waited to see if I could get any financial compensation from Kubota. If I put a new tranny in, the manufacturing line doesn't start until August 1 in Japan. Then there's the time to manufacture it, ship it, install it. I probably will be lucky to get it back in time for the winter snow.

While I don't believe my experience with the GR2100 is necessarily what to expect from all Kubota models, the GR2100 was perfect for me in terms of size and capabilities for what I needed. But the issue has put a huge thorn in my side and I'm strongly considering selling this machine and buying a different brand going forward.

So I've considered several options and this is what I'm looking for your opinions on.
1. Waiting to here how much the dealer will buy the machine as is. Assuming best case $1,000. Wait until the winter and then try to sell the snowblower attachment in a private sale for hopefully $1,500. Use the money I make to buy a different machine.

2. Have the dealer replace the tranny with a new unit for $3,000. I'm told if I buy a new tranny, it has all the upgrades that are on the current GR2120. Several dealers have told me this tranny hasn't seen any problems. Internet searches appear to confirm that, but the GR2120 has only been on the market for what, 3 years? Have the repairs made and keep the machine, but always be worried of another failure down the road.

3. Have the dealer replace the tranny with a new unit for $3,000, and then sell the 100% working machine as package with mower and snowblower in a private sale. What would I get anyway? $5,000 would be hopeful. Hours are low, but it's already 8 years old. Buyer stigma from the tranny issues? Sell the package for $5,000 and net $2,000 due to the cost of the repair. Sounds like I'm mostly back to where I started if they just give me $1,000 as is.

4. The rest of the machine is in great shape, including that wonderful diesel motor. Do I sell for parts? Kind of a pain, but could the diesel motor by itself net me $1,000 to $1,500? Mower must be worth several hundred especially since its in good shape. Could I make more in the end with this route, assuming one has the time and patience?

Any advice you folks could give me would be appreciated!

 

[kcender]

Are you able to buy the transmission and do the work yourself?This would save you money on the labor but you would still have to wait for the transmission.If it was me I would consider this and sell the whole package.Maybe a BX,either new or used,would be a better tractor for your needs.They are quite reliable.

 

[Baby Grand]

Is the transmission a Kubota manufactured unit or from a tier 1 supplier, such as Eaton?

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

the problems with the GR2100 actually had nothing do with the PTO clutch. That's a new one.

There are lots of ways to fix the rear end in these. Not replacing the hydraulic pump can save you $600-800, but you don't know if its been compromised and it could trash the system a 2nd time. I know some people have done this to save some coin.

In this case, I think the snow blower tips the scales. If it was a bare tractor, or a gasser, I'd say trash it. Since its a diesel with a snow blower it deserves new life.

 

[rjkobbeman]

Well, lets see:

FIX SCENARIO-

Paid: $5,100
New tranny: $3,000

Total investment: $8,100

HOPE to sell: $5,000

Total loss: $3,100


TRASH SCENARIO -

Paid: $5,100

Sell: $1,000

Total loss: $4,000

Looks like your are ONLY gaining $900 if you fix it and sell it for what you HOPE to sell it for. That is a pretty big gamble.

I would part the thing out and make more money. I bet you could sell the diesel engine alone for a pretty penny.

Full disclosure: Of course I am biased. I love Kubota, but have no love for the GR. People/dealers say that hydro is "fixed", but it is still the wimpiest pos I have ever used. It is a gutless wonder when going up a hill. I actually took mine back (2015 GR2120) and got a BX because it couldn't get out of its own way on a hill.

 

[AxleHub]

A couple suggestions.

1st. You got use out of it . . So using your original purchase price to calculate your loss isnt fully correct.

2nd. What about buying a used transmission from someone who had another problem . . and get someone to put it on for you?

3rd. Have you tried getting prices for new or rebuilt tranmissions from other dealers in a 150 mile radius of you . . Email them?

4th. Do you have an idea why it failed? Was it serviced regularly? I've taled to several that swear by this unit (not swear at it). How much would you spend to replace it with a new unit (whatever brand or model ). It seems you are calculating your losses . . but not a future replacement cost if you don't fix it?

5th. I was in a dealership a couple weeks ago and I couldn't believe my eyes. They had a brand new 2015 GR2120 on sale for less than $9000.00 (I thought that was way below normal). If a dealer around you had such a sale . . What would you get trading yours in? Why is this important? Because it gives you a perspective what the difference would be between tradein and a 3000.00 repair (assuming my item 3rd is always the exact same number).

 

[Venturabass]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

I've thought about tearing it apart and fixing myself but on this one I just don't think I have the skill. And if I don't fix it right, I'm adding risk of spending even more.

The transmission the dealer is quoting me for $3,000 is a brand new Kubota unit, that must be manufactured first in Japan. I'm told expect months before it's repaired and back up and running.

MessickFarmEq mentioned the PTO clutch issue is a new problem, and not what commonly plagued these machines. From what I understood on other forums, the problem was all the shafts used bushings vs. bearings. And the units also leaked at the seals. My machine never had any leaks at the seals. How does a PTO clutch basically "explode" which is the term the dealer used? I was told there were bits of the housing all inside the case. Also was this really not a problem? I've read the GR2120's PTO clutch was upgraded from mechanically actuated to hydraulically actuated. There must have been a reason for that. The dealer was not able to tell me why this failed. But I can say I care enough about the machine to have purchased the factory repair manuals to try to understand it's operation as best as possible, and always followed the directed maintenance through my local dealer.

Another thing I hadn't mentioned was that since 2011 I've also had to replace those weak Glide Steer Cables, I had a gear in the mower deck go (even though the dealer told me it was properly lubricated), and the cooler fan for the hydro unit went. Not all at once, but it has cost me a total of $1000. For putting 40-50 hours a year on it, and the cost of the machine new, that seems unacceptable.

I've thought about just having the unit rebuilt, and even saving some of the parts. But with pieces of metal inside I wasn't sure I could be certain that something wouldn't be left behind once it was all buttoned back up. I haven't thought about buying a rebuilt unit, but then again I'm very leery about putting a brand new tranny in given it seems to be so poorly designed, let alone a rebuilt "old" unit.

Some of you mentioned too that maybe I'm not considering the life I got out of the machine, and considering it an "all loss". That's true, especially with the annual cost for plowing a 325' long driveway and mowing 1 acre of grass from a professional up in New England. It's just after spending even $5k, on a machine that new is $9k, I think it's fair to say we all expect it's going to last a long time and be mainly free of major repair when operated correctly.

The problem with having the snowblower is another big issue against the idea of buying a different machine. What would I even get, $1000 for it? It's not old, but the problem is finding the buyer and having a demand for it. And if I buy a different machine then I have to buy another new snowblower, and we all know they're not cheap, and very hard to find used.

All in all cost alone it's a no brainer to make the repair and move on. The GR2100 is kind of in a class and price range by itself. I'm considering either a 2012 Simplicity Legacy XL 27hp diesel owned by an older gentleman that passed away and has only 24 hours on it, or a new Massey Ferguson GC1705 22.5hp. Either way the Simplicity is a grade above the GR2100, and the Massey appears to be a grade above the Simplicity. Going this route will end up costing me a net of around $10k for machine, mower, blower, vs. just repairing what I own.

Buying another machine is a hard decision due to the much higher up front cost. But if I just fix it I'm always going to wonder if in 5-10 years I won't have the same catastrophic problem. MessickFarmEq makes a good point about repairing due to the fact I have the snowblower already. But I can't be crazy to think that's there's no risk of future transmission issues in the next 10 years.

 

[G31]

I would fix it and keep it. Things happen, and if it's not a widespread problem, you have no reason to believe it's going to happen again. In general, you will lose less money going this route. By selling, you will take a hit on the equipment, and someone else will gain the benefit of a new transmission on a well-kept machine for a fraction of the cost of new. If you try to sell it broken, good luck. Finding a buyer is exponentially more difficult for "parts" vehicles like that, then they try to cut you down to near scrap value.

The only way I would sell it, is to use the issue as an excuse to make an upgrade I've been wanting for a while. You wanted a GC for the past few years, because it has a handy FEL, but you couldn't justify getting rid of your GR? Now is your chance.

 

[AxleHub]

Venturabass, you raise a number of issues and points to consider.

First, I can recall the days of the earlier GR products. I had looked at a couple in 2007/2008 and they were nice but expensive. At that time more than 10k without snowblower. And they had issues with the bushings etc.. It was "iffy" if it was a warranty issue and some dealers didn't want to cover a very expensive tear down and fix.

I was at the MN State Fair and about 6 dealers were working the kubota booth over the 10 days. I talked to several of them . . and each had warranteed/or fixed any and all of them they'd sold (1000s of dollars each). I'm guessing you bought a used unit that had been redone because there were two issues tranny and glide steer. But once fixed or in the new models . . they were a work horse.

I love my new Massey GC1715 . . but if I could repair diesel version of the GR for 3k or less I couldn't afford not to.

I'd put some effort into contacting 12 or 15 dealers about getting a tranny . . Pricing etc.. My question to you is . . you are saying "nobody" has replacement trannys for a GR in the US?? I don't believe it. And because I don't believe it, I'd ask that 12, 15 or so dealers I mentioned. I'd email or call.

Also I mention 9k as a very special price new at a dealership. You need to know . . I've never seen one anywhere else for less than 10.7k plus tax. That under 9k price I reported to you is way way cheap.

And a Massey GC 1705 with fel and mmm and front snowblower would be 16000 or more plus tax (snowblower plus hitch plus mid pto attach - - the combo of these 3 items adds about 3500 to the price to be able to blow snow).

 

[sandyc]

I would trade it off for a bx or b and not worry about whether it was going to last another year!