L2800-L3400 PTO Making the right choice

[emmy71]

I bought a L3400 back in December. It has about 8 PTO hours on it and I have never heard the overrunning clutch which has been described as a clacking sound. All PTO hours are from running a 5 foot rotary cutter through some very heavy brush and sapplings. No problems so far. I have a few questions:

1. What is the oil level recall mentioned.

2. How involved is the PTO repair (split tractor?, etc.) and what would be the ballpark repair bill out of warranty?

Thanks,
Terry

 

[ccsial]

If you can I would never let the overrunning clutch start clacking because its is doing damage to the cams.

I'm sure that is not good but it is not as bad as chatter under load.

I engage the PTO at idle and then run up. To disengage I push in the clutch and disengage the lever at the same time. That is a very quiet method.

If there are mass failures maybe Kubota will come up with more robust repair parts in the future.

 

[ccsial]

I bought a L3400 back in December. It has about 8 PTO hours on it and I have never heard the overrunning clutch which has been described as a clacking sound. All PTO hours are from running a 5 foot rotary cutter through some very heavy brush and sapplings. No problems so far. I have a few questions:

1. What is the oil level recall mentioned.

2. How involved is the PTO repair (split tractor?, etc.) and what would be the ballpark repair bill out of warranty?

Thanks,
Terry

Kubota said the oil level fix is to quiet the ratcheting noise the cam makes. The idea is to increase oil level to submerge the slant cam and dampen the sound. It adds an addition 7.4 quarts of Hydro oil. The Kubota fix is named PSB-2005-052. I did not do this to my L3400.

It believe the tractor must be split and I'm sure it is quite costly.

 

[JC-jetro]

When I engage the Pto on the L2800 I always did it at idle and then released the clutch. After it was engage and the tiller turning, I would then throttle it up to the propper RPMs and start tilling. To disengage it I would just flip the lever with the pto turning at the same RPM's as I was running while tilling and I would then have to push the clutch in before it would disengage.

I'm a bit concerned with a term that you and several other posters used “I engage the PTO at idle" and “independent PTO”. When we talk about L2800, 3400 and 4400 we’re entirely dealing with 3 separate concepts as follow

L-2800: transmission driven PTO with overrunning clutch (a ratchet just same as your 1/2” ratchet. It allows and engages in one direction only and slips in the opposite direction that is to prevent momentum of high kinetic energy such as rotary cutter to not push you forward)
L-3400: independent PTO (mechanical flavor) also knows as, live with dual stage clutch.
L-4400: Independent (hydraulic).


L2800 has one solid input shaft, one clutch plate and somewhere in transmission that rotational torque is transmitted to PTO shaft by action of coupler and not a clutch. Coupler will not allow you to feather the torque in. On the other hand both L3400 and L4400 have each two input shafts one inner and one outer. In other word a solid shaft inside a hollow shaft. Both are splined to each respective inner or outer shaft. There are two pressure plates. You push the clutch pedal half way and transmission is disengaged. It allows you shifting if synchronous without effecting rotation of PTO. On 4400 there is only one clutch plate that is splined to the outer shaft. Inner shaft always turns when the engine is on or not. There is a hydraulic clutch pack (several clutch plate that is squeezed together by hyd pressure to engage or disengage the PTO shaft rotation).

Now in case of L-2800 with transmission driven PTO, if one tries to engage the PTO with engine on and in neutral then the coupler will grind and would not engage. That is a bad thing to do. In neutral or in gear if you come to full stop and fully depress the clutch then nothing in transmission is rotating and you can easily engage the coupler. Anytime I used my tiller, I’ll raise it up without tines hitting the ground, put the transmission in neutral at low rpm, then fully clutch, engage the PTO shaft lever (in case of my ford 1700) or a cable and lever in case of L2800), I then change to desired gear (very slow) and start my forward motion and slowly lower my 3 pt right where I need to start tilling. I have put my PTO to task many times but not once had it jump out of the gear or grind. The coupler design on 2800 seems weak and does not seem to take much abuse, especially if one tries to engage the PTO at idle. Couplers are designed to engage when there is no rotation without damage. Coupling torque at any rotational speed is the job of a clutch. Also the PTO should be disengaged by clutching first and then release and not at all release and clutch. disengagement of a coupler at rotation speed causes shock load as it appears in your pic.

 

[8226hamer]

I bought a L3400 back in December. It has about 8 PTO hours on it and I have never heard the overrunning clutch which has been described as a clacking sound. All PTO hours are from running a 5 foot rotary cutter through some very heavy brush and sapplings. No problems so far. I have a few questions:

1. What is the oil level recall mentioned.

2. How involved is the PTO repair (split tractor?, etc.) and what would be the ballpark repair bill out of warranty?

Thanks,
Terry

I bought my L2800 in June in 2005 and the hydraulic level in the housing did not reach high enough to cover the slant cams-overrunning clutch. It involved adding a fill tube to the filler outlet and they installed a dip stick in the top of the housing that came out of the floorboard on the tractor. I broke the top part of my dipstick the first time I used the tractor after I got it back. It was placed where my feet rested. I now have to use needlenose pliers to get a grip and pull it out to check the level. After the longer fill tube was installed you now could add more oil. Kubota said it was to quiet the noise that the overrunning clutch made. I would think tractors after 2005 would already have this done at the factory .

I may be wrong on this, but I think the service manager said the book gave 16 or 17 hours for this repair. The tractor has to be split in half to be able to get to these cams. Parts, fluid, filters and 17 hours of what the dealer labor rate is. I would think the parts would be very expensive. I bought two headlight bulbs for my L2800 and they were really no more than modified 1157 truck tail light bulbs and the were almost 30.00$, so I hate to think what the parts for this repair would cost.

 

[8226hamer]

I'm a bit concerned with a term that you and several other posters used “I engage the PTO at idle" and “independent PTO”. When we talk about L2800, 3400 and 4400 we’re entirely dealing with 3 separate concepts as follow

L-2800: transmission driven PTO with overrunning clutch (a ratchet just same as your 1/2” ratchet. It allows and engages in one direction only and slips in the opposite direction that is to prevent momentum of high kinetic energy such as rotary cutter to not push you forward)
L-3400: independent PTO (mechanical flavor) also knows as, live with dual stage clutch.
L-4400: Independent (hydraulic).


L2800 has one solid input shaft, one clutch plate and somewhere in transmission that rotational torque is transmitted to PTO shaft by action of coupler and not a clutch. Coupler will not allow you to feather the torque in. On the other hand both L3400 and L4400 have each two input shafts one inner and one outer. In other word a solid shaft inside a hollow shaft. Both are splined to each respective inner or outer shaft. There are two pressure plates. You push the clutch pedal half way and transmission is disengaged. It allows you shifting if synchronous without effecting rotation of PTO. On 4400 there is only one clutch plate that is splined to the outer shaft. Inner shaft always turns when the engine is on or not. There is a hydraulic clutch pack (several clutch plate that is squeezed together by hyd pressure to engage or disengage the PTO shaft rotation).

Now in case of L-2800 with transmission driven PTO, if one tries to engage the PTO with engine on and in neutral then the coupler will grind and would not engage. That is a bad thing to do. In neutral or in gear if you come to full stop and fully depress the clutch then nothing in transmission is rotating and you can easily engage the coupler. Anytime I used my tiller, I’ll raise it up without tines hitting the ground, put the transmission in neutral at low rpm, then fully clutch, engage the PTO shaft lever (in case of my ford 1700) or a cable and lever in case of L2800), I then change to desired gear (very slow) and start my forward motion and slowly lower my 3 pt right where I need to start tilling. I have put my PTO to task many times but not once had it jump out of the gear or grind. The coupler design on 2800 seems weak and does not seem to take much abuse, especially if one tries to engage the PTO at idle. Couplers are designed to engage when there is no rotation without damage. Coupling torque at any rotational speed is the job of a clutch. Also the PTO should be disengaged by clutching first and then release and not at all release and clutch. disengagement of a coupler at rotation speed causes shock load as it appears in your pic.

I'm not sure if I understand what you are saying, but I think you are refering to a grear driven transmission and not the HST transmission. My tractor has a HST transmission and a live continous PTO with overrunning clutch.. I'm not sure what the difference is between the transmission driven, with overrunning clutch PTO system that a gear driven transmission L2800 has and the live continuous with overrunning clutch that the HST transmission has. I never have had gear grinding while engaging or disengaging my PTO. The only time it would make the clacking noise is a fast drop in engine RPM's with the PTO engaged and the tillers tines turning or if using the bush hog the blades still turning.
When I push in the clutch and then put the PTO lever back to the disengage position and then release the clutch, the PTO should not still be engaged, but sometimes it is and will not disengage unless you pushed the clutch in and out, sometimes as many as five times before it will cut the power of to the tiller and be disengaged. Now I'm confusing myself.

 

[JC-jetro]

I'm not sure if I understand what you are saying, but I think you are refering to a grear driven transmission and not the HST transmission. My tractor has a HST transmission and a live continous PTO with overrunning clutch.. I'm not sure what the difference is between the transmission driven, with overrunning clutch PTO system that a gear driven transmission L2800 has and the live continuous with overrunning clutch that the HST transmission has. I never have had gear grinding while engaging or disengaging my PTO. The only time it would make the clacking noise is a fast drop in engine RPM's with the PTO engaged and the tillers tines turning or if using the bush hog the blades still turning.
When I push in the clutch and then put the PTO lever back to the disengage position and then release the clutch, the PTO should not still be engaged, but sometimes it is and will not disengage unless you pushed the clutch in and out, sometimes as many as five times before it will cut the power of to the tiller and be disengaged. Now I'm confusing myself.

My bad ...I thought you had geared transmission. I went back and looked at the brochure I had for the L series, and the following is noteworthy;

In general general live continuous is refereed to dual clutch (dual stage) with two clutch disk. The brochure shows L2800 with HST transmission has single clutch but it is live continuous. That is an oxymoron. I hope kubota owners chime in and clarify this. The brochure further indicates overrunning clutch only for Gear driven transmission for either 2WD or 4 WD. HST's to my limited knowledge does not have over running clutch. it may also be due to slightly different terms being used by different manufactures. You have a coupler that by inspection shows in can only catch turning in one direction and not the other. i just wondered that release mechanism is not allowing proper disengagement when you have to press the clutch several times to release. I know for sure that you do not have a hydraulic PTO clutch pack that is more forgiving. Sorry if I confused you some

I thinks in general ground engaging task is better suited with gear tranny although I have only a little HST using experience. I understand the inner working of HST and do not find it a good choice for my occasional tractor use. I rather have more reliability than ease of operation.

 

[8226hamer]

My bad ...I thought you had geared transmission. I went back and looked at the brochure I had for the L series, and the following is noteworthy;

In general general live continuous is refereed to dual clutch (dual stage) with two clutch disk. The brochure shows L2800 with HST transmission has single clutch but it is live continuous. That is an oxymoron. I hope kubota owners chime in and clarify this. The brochure further indicates overrunning clutch only for Gear driven transmission for either 2WD or 4 WD. HST's to my limited knowledge does not have over running clutch. it may also be due to slightly different terms being used by different manufactures. You have a coupler that by inspection shows in can only catch turning in one direction and not the other. i just wondered that release mechanism is not allowing proper disengagement when you have to press the clutch several times to release. I know for sure that you do not have a hydraulic PTO clutch pack that is more forgiving. Sorry if I confused you some

I thinks in general ground engaging task is better suited with gear tranny although I have only a little HST using experience. I understand the inner working of HST and do not find it a good choice for my occasional tractor use. I rather have more reliability than ease of operation.

I think your are correct on the gear driven transmission being more reliable on this series of tractors. I apologize for not stating that my tractor is a HST tranny. I to think the problem is the process of disengaging the PTO and the fact the two cams and locking lugs are not built heavy enough to take the method it uses. Like you said tthe hydro PTO clutch pack is more forgiving and more reliable. That is why I started this thread and how important it is for you, the buyer to research what is best suited for your type of work and how you are using your tractor. The salesman that sold me my tractor has appologized a number of times about the problems I have had. I have no hard feelings toward him because he was like me and just didn't know how this system would preform with my application. I wasn't told by the Rep that the system I have is a bad system, but I probably chose the wrong tractor for my type of work and for what I use it for ( application). I thought that when I bought my L2800 that if it had a Kubota sticker on the hood that it would preform like my two previous Kubotas did and it sure hasn't, and told him this, not all Kubotas are not created equal. Do your research and choose the best tractor for your type of application. My next tractor will have an independent PTO and hydro clutch pack and depending what me and the dealer can come up with in price will be a new B3030.
You didn't have to apologize for my confusion, I was that way long before I read your post and from what you posted has helped in my understanding of the PTO engage and disengaging process with my type my tractor uses even though yours is grear driven and mines HST.

 

[ccsial]

I wasn't told by the Rep that the system I have is a bad system, but I probably chose the wrong tractor for my type of work and for what I use it for ( application).

When I think of getting wrong tractor for the application I think of size, weight, HP, 4WD, but never thought of PTO reliability.

I think every tractor that has a PTO should be able to handle any use (not abuse) that it is put to. Roto-tilling is not cruel and unusual pusnishment for a PTO in my opinion, even though it is tougher than mowing.

I really like my L3400 and hope that the PTO holds up to my mowing and snow blowing use. This is a problem that Kubota should have never let occur even on an economy tractor. The PTO should be robust on any tractor. At least the over-riding clutch should have been separate and easy to replace.

 

[Rockyridge]

(In general general live continuous is refereed to dual clutch (dual stage) with two clutch disk. The brochure shows L2800 with HST transmission has single clutch but it is live continuous. That is an oxymoron. I hope kubota owners chime in and clarify this.)

The dual stage clutch allows you to push the clutch in far enough to stop the tractor from moving forward without disengaging the PTO. That is accomplished with HST by simply centering the HST pedal, tractor stops moving and PTO continues; therefore there is no need for an additional clutch stage. Pushing the HST clutch in stops both the tractor ground drive and the PTO, the same as pushing the dual stage clutch all the way in.

Does anyone know if Kubota has done anything to correct this weakness in the L2800 - L3400 PTO? Do new models have this same system without any improvement in design or larger/stronger gears?

Thanks for any information you have