New EVEN FRESHER LS J info than the First Fresh Info Thread.

[Singalo]

Pictures are not exactly plentiful, but I finally found a couple with the BH. If you save the photo to your computer and open it with "Picture Viewer", you can zoom in and get a good look at the bracket that must be removed to put the MMM on. The carriage from the BH slips into a slot in the bracket. There are some Massey GC2610 pics for comparison. I could not find any decent 1710 pics, but for the most part they are the same.

Please note in the RCO Tractor pics, you don't see the insane hydraulic hoses for the FEL sticking up in the air as depicted in the shot with the MMM. The current version has the hoses neatly tucked behind the loader arm, and the couplings are behind the loader arm also, out of sight and well protected. A bit of a pain to hook up and unhook, but I much prefer them to be set up this way rather then exposed. This is far superior to the NH Boomer Version.

I don't know what the hoses are hanging down in the RCO tractor pics running to the rear of the tractor. I have not seen these on the tractor I looked at from Paiges. There are no hoses hanging down. If they are there for the BH, I can't imagine this would be how the hoses are run for 2013. This will be another aspect I am looking for on my demonstration. I don't like the hoses hanging down at all, and would not think there is a good reason why they could not be routed better.

 

[beardley]

Not to add more to your search, but if you're looking at sub compacts (i thought you were looking more at the B size) then don't discount the yanmar. I in fact still own a SC2400, it is is a great little tractor. I looked at the specs, and it is very comparable to the 1710. You of course would need the SC2450, but they are essentially the same tractor, but the 50 has a beefier subframe to support the BH. My grandfather bought the SC2400 a few years before he passed away, and the only reason I upgraded is I'm building a house and I was asking it to do more than it was designed for. It is a awesome little tractor and did a lot more than I imagined it could. I just didn't want to break it. Yanmar BTW built the green tractors for quite a while, and their engines are still in them.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Pictures are not exactly plentiful, but I finally found a couple with the BH. If you save the photo to your computer and open it with "Picture Viewer", you can zoom in and get a good look at the bracket that must be removed to put the MMM on. The carriage from the BH slips into a slot in the bracket. There are some Massey GC2610 pics for comparison. I could not find any decent 1710 pics, but for the most part they are the same.

Please note in the RCO Tractor pics, you don't see the insane hydraulic hoses for the FEL sticking up in the air as depicted in the shot with the MMM. The current version has the hoses neatly tucked behind the loader arm, and the couplings are behind the loader arm also, out of sight and well protected. A bit of a pain to hook up and unhook, but I much prefer them to be set up this way rather then exposed. This is far superior to the NH Boomer Version.

I don't know what the hoses are hanging down in the RCO tractor pics running to the rear of the tractor. I have not seen these on the tractor I looked at from Paiges. There are no hoses hanging down. If they are there for the BH, I can't imagine this would be how the hoses are run for 2013. This will be another aspect I am looking for on my demonstration. I don't like the hoses hanging down at all, and would not think there is a good reason why they could not be routed better.
View attachment 306329View attachment 306330View attachment 306331View attachment 306332View attachment 306333View attachment 306334

Hoses running from front to back and hanging down are just part of having a tractor with a "oh by the way, but a FEL on and a Back hoe. While some might be ran a little neater and tucked a little higher you are still going to have them. It seems the smaller the tractor, the more hoses you have to contend with. Everything except the short 3 foot or so of hose that allows the removal of the back hoe on my B26 is steel tubing till the cylinders and then only enough hose to allow cylinder movement. My P 7010 is much the same way except for about 4 -10 feet hoses that attach to the valve distribution box that is directly under the cab floor and on the side of the tractor very easy to get to and work on. The QA disconnects are there and then hoses run up to the top of the loader boom where they hook on to steel tubing lines for the rest of the routing.
Sometimes the steel tubing and close routing is not to your favor for maintenance though as I am finding out when trying to adjust my PRV on my B26. It easy enough to see if you have the tractor jacked up about 3 feet and laying directly underneath it but you just cant quite get a wrench on it even after removing the rear tire and a 4" wide diagonal brace where the sub-frame is cut to go around the rear axle.

 

[TSO]

Don't be afraid to checkout a Kioti either. They now sell a SCUT with a 60" MMM in a TLB package for around $16k I believe.

The CK20 and CK30 come as TLB also, but the loader isn't as strong as LS's. Kioti's are good tractors and are still almost as inexpensive as LS (but steadily going up in price).

From what I remember reading, the Kioti backhoe also uses a subframe mount and specs out very comparable to the Woods units

Sent from my Motorola Photon using TractorByNet for Android

 

[Singalo]

The prob with the ck25 I looked at is that it weighed 3000 lbs, or 1500 more then the ls. The ls has the size advantage over the GC, while remaining about the same weight. The ls is not built nearly as beefy as the kioti. But I don't believe they serve the same rolls in life. The kioti is to heavy to be a lawn mower. I fear compaction. I think it will be bad enough at nearly 2000lbs with the MMM.

 

[TSO]

The prob with the ck25 I looked at is that it weighed 3000 lbs, or 1500 more then the ls. The ls has the size advantage over the GC, while remaining about the same weight. The ls is not built nearly as beefy as the kioti. But I don't believe they serve the same rolls in life. The kioti is to heavy to be a lawn mower. I fear compaction. I think it will be bad enough at nearly 2000lbs with the MMM.

Since I'm a "specs" guy, I looked up the J2030 & Kioti CS2410 (their new sub compact). Here's the specs and a conclusion below:

J2030H..vs.. CS2410
HP/PTO-hp= 27/20.5..vs.. 24.5/19.4
3pt lift lbs = 1433..vs.. 700

Dimensions
Length = 103" ..vs.. 98.1"
Width = 44.9" ...vs.. 46.5"
Wheelbase= 59" ..vs.. 55.1"
Weight = 1587lbs ..vs.. 1485lbs

Loader
lift height = 85.7" ..vs.. 71.3"
lift cap = 1150lbs @ pins ..vs.. 675.3 @ pins
breakout = 1740lbs @ pins ..vs.. 1332 @ pins

Backhoe
Depth = 76.9" ..vs.. 84"
Dig force = 2068lbs @ pins ..vs.. 2096 @ pins
dipper force= 1748lbs @ pins ..vs.. 1159 @ pins

MMM Mower
60" ..vs.. 60"

So... Weight will be nearly identical. Almost every spec (for power) goes to the LS. Just like I found with my 4041 and the comparable brands, LS' Loaders seem to be stronger than everyone else's. Having owned both Kioti and now LS (for a short time) I would say their quality is nearly identical, if not a touch nicer on fit/finish going to the Kioti. But, the raw power specs definitely shine for the LS. I'd still check on pricing for the Kioti CS2410 TLB, as they usually run some pretty sweet package deals. My local Kioti dealer (VanPaemel Equip in Armada, Mich) has one in his showroom now, but I can't recall the price. I try to use a features/specs to price ratio myself to determine a purchase, so I would have to know the price for both to make that decision.

Good luck

 

[GManBart]

To be fair, in the larger models, Kioti's loader typically has more lifting power, to a greater height, and higher fully dumped clearance. What's weird is the LS has a higher breakout force, but lower lifting weight specifications.

Yesterday I was accused of being overly biased..... Maybe I should delete this comment.

 

[TSO]

To be fair, in the larger models, Kioti's loader typically has more lifting power, to a greater height, and higher fully dumped clearance. What's weird is the LS has a higher breakout force, but lower lifting weight specifications.

Yesterday I was accused of being overly biased..... Maybe I should delete this comment.

Very true - I'll take the breakout force over the lift though, especially since the models you & I compared had only a 261lb difference in lift capacity but a 627lb difference in breakout

I am surprised too by the relatively "short" lift height of the LS loaders. A comparable NH Boomer (which uses a different loader than its' LS twin) has a higher lift height too, but a substantially smaller weight capacity for that lift. While I would definitely like a higher lift height than 96.1" in mine, it rarely goes up that high anyhow so I'll take the higher capacity at lower heights. :2cents:

 

[Singalo]

Since I'm a "specs" guy, I looked up the J2030 & Kioti CS2410 (their new sub compact). Here's the specs and a conclusion below:

J2030H..vs.. CS2410
HP/PTO-hp= 27/20.5..vs.. 24.5/19.4
3pt lift lbs = 1433..vs.. 700

Dimensions
Length = 103" ..vs.. 98.1"
Width = 44.9" ...vs.. 46.5"
Wheelbase= 59" ..vs.. 55.1"
Weight = 1587lbs ..vs.. 1485lbs

Loader
lift height = 85.7" ..vs.. 71.3"
lift cap = 1150lbs @ pins ..vs.. 675.3 @ pins
breakout = 1740lbs @ pins ..vs.. 1332 @ pins

Backhoe
Depth = 76.9" ..vs.. 84"
Dig force = 2068lbs @ pins ..vs.. 2096 @ pins
dipper force= 1748lbs @ pins ..vs.. 1159 @ pins

MMM Mower
60" ..vs.. 60"

So... Weight will be nearly identical. Almost every spec (for power) goes to the LS. Just like I found with my 4041 and the comparable brands, LS' Loaders seem to be stronger than everyone else's. Having owned both Kioti and now LS (for a short time) I would say their quality is nearly identical, if not a touch nicer on fit/finish going to the Kioti. But, the raw power specs definitely shine for the LS. I'd still check on pricing for the Kioti CS2410 TLB, as they usually run some pretty sweet package deals. My local Kioti dealer (VanPaemel Equip in Armada, Mich) has one in his showroom now, but I can't recall the price. I try to use a features/specs to price ratio myself to determine a purchase, so I would have to know the price for both to make that decision.

Good luck

The model you are comparing the LS J to is a sub compact, and is closer in specs to the GC1710, BX25D excreta. I know for a fact some would choose to debate rather or not the LS J is a SCUT or CUT. Personally, I think it is, in my own words, a "Small Cut". Physically speaking and spec wise, I think it compares closer to the CK27 HST in the Kioti line up. I said CK25 before, I do apologize. The CK27 weighs in a just over 3100 LBS. Obviously there is a reason for this. The kioti is much more "Tractor" then the LS J. I do mean in regards to construction. I would think that the Kioti would take a heck of a lot more beating. But as I said previously, I don't think they serve the same purpose in life.

Personally, if I were going to go with the CS version of the Kioti, I would take the GC1710 instead. In fact, in that size SCUT, I would take the GC1710 over all other competitors.

 

[TSO]

Being that the dimensions and weight are nearly identical to the 2 above SCUT's... and considering that the very next sized up Kioti (CK20) jumps up another 600+ lbs and is a bigger tractor... I'm not sure how you can debate that the 2 above mentioned tractors are SCUT's ...

However, there's no dispute that the POWER RATINGS of the LS J2030h places it's capabilities above the SCUT size. The HP, 3-pt lift, and Loader specs are all higher than the CK20 and maybe even the CK27/30. I did not shop around this time in the CK20 size market, so I don't know what the direct competitors are now from the other brands.

I would say the J2030H is a SCUT with "next-step up" power ratings. But still a SCUT size-wise.