Mahindra 4035 caught on fire

[Mahindra3355]

Well today my Mahindra 4035 PST caught on fire today. I have not had a chance to contact the dealer yet, and am trying to find some guidance on taking the next step. My tractor is a 2011 and has 372 hours on it. I recently have had a starter issue( this is the 2nd time I have had an issue with the starter). After finding out the a new starter would be over $400 dollars I took the starter to be rebuilt, when this did not fix the problem I ended up taking the tractor to the dealership and they said that the cable that runs between the battery and the starter was bad(go figure), they replaced it and I went on my way. Since getting the tractor back I have put less than 2 hours(maybe even less than one, they did not print the hours reading on my receipt when i picked it up) on the tractor, and today after bushhogging with the tractor for about an hour, I got off the tractor to replace the shear pin when i noticed a bad smell and a small wisp of smoke coming out of the dash by the hand throttle next to the steering wheel. I immediately turned off the tractor and called the fire department first, then I called my father to bring me a fire extinguisher. The flames were coming from the direct vicinity of the starter motor. The fire department believes it was an electrical fire, and the tractor is in pretty bad shape, the left side of the dash is mostly melted, and all the wiring will need to be replaced. Also, some how during the fire the tractor turned itself back on? My warranty is out, and I do not have insurance on the tractor, but being that the tractor was just in the shop I wonder if the dealership messed something up. Should I first take the tractor to a different dealership to get an unbiased opinion or should I wait until they tell me what they think and then take it somewhere else?

 

[DavesTractor]

Oh man, that is a bummer. Sorry to hear this. Check with your homeowner's insurance, sometimes you have tractor coverage and you don't know it.

One possibility - there is a power steering hose that runs down very close to the positive battery cable where it attaches to the starter. If it actually rubs on the cable it can eventually rub through the outer rubber protective layer of the hose. Under that layer is a layer of wire reinforcement. If it contacts the positive cable terminal end, you get sparks since that wire is effectively grounded. The sparks/heat can then melt the next layer, which is rubber and in which the oil is contained and at a reasonably high pressure. The oil then sprays a nice mist and you have sparks and you have a fire. We had this happen once, and Mahindra quickly covered everything under warranty.

Your problem is probably different, but since a cable was just changed, and the starter was recently removed, this area has been worked on and if the last guy did not make sure that hose was up and out of the way, that could be your issue. Or it could be a totally unrelated electrical issue. It may be a flaw in the rebuilt starter or some other wiring gremlin. I am just throwing out the power-steering hose issue as we saw this once and even if it is not your issue it may help someone else.

Mahindra frowns on a tractor that burns, no matter the cause. It is bad PR and they care about that. I certainly can't say they will cover an out of warranty problem, but I would ask. Take plenty of pictures first, and if you do take it back to the original dealership (which I would recommend) I'd see if you can deliver it back and meet the dealership service manager and the area Mahindra service rep when you deliver it. I would not assume an adversarial relationship will occur, but I would also tell them to save all parts and to disturb things as little as possible until they decide if they can help.

Anyone else with a 4035/5035, go check that power steering hose. Zip-tie or clamp it up away from the starter positive terminal. We have only had this happen to one of our customers once, but once was one time too many.

 

[Industrial Toys]

A lot of stored energy in a battery. I have been working on putting battery disconnects on all my equipment.

 

[Coyote machine]

Sorry to hear about your troubles with your tractor. At least it happened outside so no other property damage, and you weren't hurt either, thankfully, (I'm assuming, since you mentioned neither having occurred).
A positive battery cable goes bad usually via excessive corrosion inside the cable's strands. It then poses too much resistance to complete the circuit to the starter in the usual way and then your tractor won't start. Sounds like they replaced the positive cable, possibly as Dave's Tractors stated, when doing so near or partial contact may have been made, which later shorted out on the braided hose, and could have cause a dead short, resulting in the fire. The smoke coming from the dash was likely the excessive heat from the short finding it's way back to the ignition wiring, etc.

Dealer's carry 'garage keeper's insurance' to cover them on issues like this, so be as nice as you can muster, and see what they have to say, and then deal with it accordingly. Might want to bring someone with you to be your witness to what's said. Be calm, be polite, and let them know you expect them to remedy this at their entire expense. Give them a chance to make it right, regardless of being out of warranty, and point out, if appropriate, that they neglected to note the hours on your work invoice, something they're obligated to fill out for everyone's benefit.
Post us back with the results and maybe we can help further with sounding board advice as to what to do next. If you remain cool and calm I believe it will lead to the best outcome. How many hours are on the machine currently? Do you have a record of the starter rebuild, if needed?

 

[DavesTractor]

Coyote, good advice but I will add that it is possible that this fire is totally unrelated to the work the dealer did and unrelated to any flaws in material or workmanship by Mahindra. We need to be open to that. It is not unusual to open up a dash on a tractor with electrical problems to find a bunch of rat chewed wiring. So yes it seems to point to the starter or cable and a dealer touched that last, but we can't know with any certainty with the information we have at hand that the dealer did anything wrong. And not noting the hours did not cause the fire obviously, that was just a clerical type of error. And let's not forget that the starter was rebuilt unnecessarily, as it did not fix the problem. I don't think the dealer did the rebuild, so we can widen the liability loop a little here. And if the owner installed the starter, he may have done something wrong.

My point is we want the truth, and we should be slow to jump to conclusions.

 

[Coyote machine]

Dave's: I understand where you're coming from, that's why I asked about hours on the rig. It's sometimes hard to convey the 'tone' in an internet forum, and you're right certainly there are some if not numerous questions as to what the sequence of events is from 'starter' to finish with the burned tractor. I try not to assume anything, and it is difficult to put together the cause of the fire without more info.

I would like to know why the starter was rebuilt - was it the OP's decision, or a mechanic's suggestion? Who did the rebuild, and what did they replace? Brushes, windings, bearings, solenoid?

What the fault was in the positive battery cable leading to the starter? Who diagnosed it? Was it written on the work order as to the defect, and it's cause and effect on the tractor's starting? Was the no start, or no crank condition remedied just by the cable replacement?
It's just not logical that all this would suddenly happen, especially fire at the starter motor location unless something was possibly left loose or not spaced far enough from the hose you mentioned...
The fire occurred within no time, (+/- 2 hours use) from the cable replacement.

Certainly the dash smoke could be a rodent nest, but how does one explain the overall outcome: fire at starter, smoke at dash, all after only 1-2 hours use after the + cable replacement?

I suggested the OP remain calm and see what he could glean from speaking with the dealer. Yes, no hours is a clerical issue, but sometimes errors like this are indicative of sloppy shop methods, which can become the norm throughout the shop. (I owned and ran a foreign auto shop for 10+ years, so I know what can happen to morale, etc.) I often ponder why the most common item left off the work order is the # of hours or mileage. It's not a coincidence, IMHO, it's either laziness or intent.
Personally I think it best for the OP to visit with the dealer who did the repair and try to work something out. Going to someone else isn't going to help solve the mystery- there are already too many factors/people involved currently . Another dealer is not likely going to be of much help, and probably wouldn't want to get involved in this situation if they have any sense. I know I wouldn't want to get in the middle of this mess, if it were my shop. :confused3:

 

[Sysop]

Wasn't there also an issue with some of the dash wiring causing similar? Rubbed on the firewall in the hole where it passes between the engine bay and dash?

 

[DavesTractor]

Wasn't there also an issue with some of the dash wiring causing similar? Rubbed on the firewall in the hole where it passes between the engine bay and dash?

Perhaps, although I have not seen that issue. You would think any wires going through the firewall would be fuse protected?

 

[Sysop]

That's why I was asking, I don't remember the result of the issue, but I do remember someone having an electrical issue with the cause being the wires rubbed in the hole they passed through (lack of a grommet).

Smoke in the dash is what made me think of it.

 

[Sysop]

I wonder if OP has been able to contact the dealer today?