MF 135 Hydraulic 3 Point Hitch Questions

[termyte14]

I recently purchased a Massey Ferguson 135 with the 3 cylinder Perkins gas engine. It does not have multi-power. I could tell the three point hitch did not work correctly when I bought it. With nothing attached and the draft and position arms in the fully down position, the lift arms would drag the ground. The fluid was milky white and over full on the dip stick. I have drained the fluid (between 9 and 10 gallons) and flushed with diesel fuel. I removed both side inspection covers and could see a cracked piston on the hydraulic pump and the piston return spring was hanging out of the draft response dashpot. I have since removed the hydraulic lift cover and the pump and found both pistons to be cracked. I plan on getting a new/refurbished pump, mine has the horizontal relief valve.

-What are your thoughts on the pumps offered on eBay for approximately $400?
-Will a pump with a vertical relief valve work?
-What do I need to know/verify/check to ensure the new pump is the correct one? (The old pump has 10 splines and the camshaft measures 1.312 on the shaft or 1.357 on the raised lip by the splines.)
-My dealer tells me the missing plug from the dashpot is nothing more than a 3/4" freeze plug, do ya'll agree? All other parts appear to be there.
-What type of oil shold go back in? My dealer advised against the TSC Universal fluid that has the MF number referenced. They recommend a straight 90W mineral gear oil. I found this at TSC labeled as Ford Tractor fluid, any thoughts?
-Will I need to do any of the adjustments to the hydraulic lift cover that are stated in the manual?
-If so, where do you get the special tools required?

Thanks in advance for your help. I have already learned a ton to get this far with this project through referencing different threads here.

Thanks, Michael

 

[The kid]

There should only only eight gallons of oil inside for hydraulics and rear. More than that you will be leaking out thru the wheel seals. As for ebay pumps. They are rebuilt pumps. Get an estimate on rebuilding yours before buying a rebuilt one. As for oil type. TSC's hydraulic oil is M-1129 compliant and is compatible with the MF135. Many here use it with no side effects. You can buy it in five gallons and two gallons. Don't forget to swap those shifter boots where water most commonly enters the sump. Check your PTO seal for leaks. Check the bottom cotter pin for dripping oil. Question is. Why did it have so much hydraulic oil in it? Oh yeah.. pictures... Where are the pictures?

 

[SIMassey]

There should only only eight gallons of oil inside for hydraulics and rear. Question is. Why did it have so much hydraulic oil in it?

From the milky color of the fluid as the OP states, it sounds like the oil was full of water being that much overfull on the dipstick and draining 9 to 10 gallons out. could that much water in the oil freeze and break the pistons on the pump?

Does this look more like it??

 

[termyte14]

There should only only eight gallons of oil inside for hydraulics and rear. More than that you will be leaking out thru the wheel seals. As for ebay pumps. They are rebuilt pumps. Get an estimate on rebuilding yours before buying a rebuilt one. As for oil type. TSC's hydraulic oil is M-1129 compliant and is compatible with the MF135. Many here use it with no side effects. You can buy it in five gallons and two gallons. Don't forget to swap those shifter boots where water most commonly enters the sump. Check your PTO seal for leaks. Check the bottom cotter pin for dripping oil. Question is. Why did it have so much hydraulic oil in it? Oh yeah.. pictures... Where are the pictures?

OK, I'm new to the forum so here goes for the pictures. I had presumed the shifter boots based on a number of threads here so new ones are already installed. Attached are two pictures of the cracked pump pistons and one picture of the missing plug from the dashpot. I will check on getting a quote to have someone rebuild the pump, I just felt it may be easier to buy a pump for $400 rather than a kit for $200 and risk screwing something up. Also figured since I had already pulled the PTO shaft out, I would replace the seal and O-ring as I checked with the dealer and can get both for about $8.

Would any of these issues cause the lift arms to drag the ground with both levers in the down position?

 

[The kid]

OK, I'm new to the forum so here goes for the pictures. I had presumed the shifter boots based on a number of threads here so new ones are already installed. Attached are two pictures of the cracked pump pistons and one picture of the missing plug from the dashpot. I will check on getting a quote to have someone rebuild the pump, I just felt it may be easier to buy a pump for $400 rather than a kit for $200 and risk screwing something up. Also figured since I had already pulled the PTO shaft out, I would replace the seal and O-ring as I checked with the dealer and can get both for about $8. Would any of these issues cause the lift arms to drag the ground with both levers in the down position? <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=355065"/><img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=355066"/><img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=355067"/><img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=355068"/>

If both lever where down the lift ares are suppose to drop. Or forward. The draft control remains up buy not quite all the way or if could cause constant pumping. The position control (inner towards seat) raises and lowers the three point hitch. You did try to lift the arms by raising the levers while running right? The draft control is only used if your pulling a plow which compensates for uneven ground and keeps the plow gliding evenly over the terrain. The lower lever by your right foot siting on the tractor is the speed controlling the rate of lift and fall. This the embossed fast slow on it. Assuming you have already tested the lift with the levers or you wouldn't be inside it. :smile: BTW welcome to the forum. -kid

 

[SIMassey]

If both lever where down the lift ares are suppose to drop. Or forward. The draft control remains up buy not quite all the way or if could cause constant pumping. The position control (inner towards seat) raises and lowers the three point hitch. You did try to lift the arms by raising the levers while running right? The draft control is only used if your pulling a plow which compensates for uneven ground and keeps the plow gliding evenly over the terrain. The lower lever by your right foot siting on the tractor is the speed controlling the rate of lift and fall. This the embossed fast slow on it. Assuming you have already tested the lift with the levers or you wouldn't be inside it. :smile: BTW welcome to the forum. -kid

Constant pumping is on the position lever and not the draft lever.

 

[termyte14]

Yes, with both levers up, the lift arms would raise. I was unfamiliar with the multiple levers as my only other experience is with a Ford 3000 which only has the position lever and something totally different for the draft. I do not feel the lift arms were lifting to the full capability, presumably because of the condition of the pump and oil.

Thoughts on the freeze plug for the dashpot?

Thanks, Michael

 

[Xfaxman]

There should only only eight gallons of oil inside for hydraulics and rear. Question is. Why did it have so much hydraulic oil in it?

From the milky color of the fluid as the OP states, it sounds like the oil was full of water being that much overfull on the dipstick and draining 9 to 10 gallons out. could that much water in the oil freeze and break the pistons on the pump?

SIMassey, the confusion was caused when you edited the quote. You deleted the "[/QUOTE]" at the end of The kid's post. I put it back in, above to show the difference.

This is how I do it:

There should only only eight gallons of oil inside for hydraulics and rear. ----------- Question is. Why did it have so much hydraulic oil in it?--------------

Highlight what you want to delete, then hold down the dash or any special character you want to show up where text was deleted. Be careful not to delete the "[/QUOTE]" at the end of the post.

 

[SIMassey]

Thanks, none the less it still reads the same, not your fault.

 

[Xfaxman]

-----------
Would any of these issues cause the lift arms to drag the ground with both levers in the down position?
-----------------

Don't know, needed to see pictures of the lift arms and lift links before you took it apart. Do you have a Shop Manual? There should be a procedure to set the height. Are the rear wheels and tires smaller than than original?

---------

Thoughts on the freeze plug for the dashpot?

Thanks, Michael

Get the part number, do a Google search and also on eBay.

 

[The kid]

Yes, with both levers up, the lift arms would raise. I was unfamiliar with the multiple levers as my only other experience is with a Ford 3000 which only has the position lever and something totally different for the draft. I do not feel the lift arms were lifting to the full capability, presumably because of the condition of the pump and oil. Thoughts on the freeze plug for the dashpot? Thanks, Michael

There are two plugs listed in the partlist catalog.

Part # 898169M1 Plug 3/4" cup type
Part # 831447M1. Plug 3/16" cup type

You might want to visit www.agcopartsbook.com and see the complete assembly along with parts list and numbers.

You must be running IE Explorer with the silverlight plugin. Silverlight is kind of a PDF viewer but alot more. You can zoom the part and print both parts and list. -kid

 

[termyte14]

The rear tires are 13.6-28/12-26.

I have become very familiar with the agcopartsbook website and had found the part number for the 3/4" plug but a google search wasn't very productive. The dealer said its been discontinued but is nothing more than a 3/4" cup type freeze plug. Went by several auto parts stores and they seem to agree with the dealer based on the description, but none had one this small. I have since ordered one online, not expensive at all. We'll see how it works out.

Went back by dealer today to try to get more info on the pump. They couldn't quote me a price to rebuild as I didn't have it with me. I have since checked and found it has .98" pistons, a 10 spline camshaft and no pressure control. I spoke with another online retailer and they feel Sparex pump 60950 is correct. The pictures look correct. I can get it new for about $400. I'm really leaning to this option.

Now, once I get these taken care of, how do I go about making the adjustments without the special tools?

Thanks for all the excellent input.

Michael

 

[The kid]

Michael, Do you have a copy of the I&T shop manual? There is quite a bit of info on adjustments to the internal hydraulics. Got mine at TSC. -kid

 

[termyte14]

I bought a CD off eBay with a service manual, shop manual, and engine manual. I think the shop manual is the I&T manual so I will read up on the procedures in there. I later found a MF service manual on eBay but it was incorrectly listed as a parts manual so I got a great deal on it but I'm not positive it is all there. This is the one I have mainly been referencing though.

I have seen some discussion in other threads about a CD by Big Dean. I have tried two different links where folks say they uploaded it to a file sharing site but I cannot get either of the links to work. Can someone help me with this or maybe upload it again, I'm thinking that maybe it hasn't been downloaded in a while and was removed by the site, just a guess though.

Thanks, Michael

 

[termyte14]

Well its been a while since I posted but I finally got a new pump and got it installed today along with the PTO shaft and drive shaft with coupling. Moved on to the internal adjustments on the lift cover and think I may have found another issue. Got the draft adjustments taken care of and then moved on to the position adjustment. Changed the positions of the quadrant controls but when I went to apply the 3 pounds of force, the lever moved with barely a touch. I did some investigating and found the hydraulic linkage pivot shaft may be in question. It is part number 898304M91. Is this supposed to be a rigid shaft? It has play in it right next to where it comes through the casting on the cam assembly side. This should show up in the attached photo. I have googled the part number and it is available but I'm hoping someone can confirm my suspicions first. Thanks for all the help to this point.

Michael

 

[klancf51]

Hmmm... sounds familiar - check the posts on this thread: Massey Ferguson 135 Position Control Not Working.
Hope this helps.

 

[termyte14]

Well I finally got some time to post pictures of the progress so far. Got the new pump installed.

The new coupling that came with the new pump to join it to the transmission had to be removed and the old one was used. Simply could not get the pump up on the shaft with the new coupling. Took the new coupling off and tried just fitting that on by itself and it still would not go. After two+ hours of trying, decided to use the old coupling and had the pump installed in 10 minutes.

Got the PTO shaft re installed with a new seal and o-ring.

Also got the drive shaft and coupling reinstalled. Forgot to take a picture of the needle bearing in the transmission end of the shaft that needed replacing at this time as well (all the old needles starting falling out when the shaft was removed).

Also got the PTO side cover reinstalled. Went ahead and did this so I could verify the selector went in the proper slot.

Also got the adjustments done on the draft control spring and a new boot installed.

 

[termyte14]

Have also done some investigating on the new issue found. I do believe the pin I referenced before is broken and a new one has been ordered. I also found though that the position arm had gotten on the wrong side of one of the cam rollers.



This picture is the way it was found. I'm not sure how well you can see it due to the clutter. I'll try to get a picture of the correct installation later.

I have ordered new rollers as well for the position and draft as they will be easily accessible when the pin gets replaced. I'm hoping once these repairs get made, I will be able to properly adjust everything and get the cover back on the tractor.

This site has been wonderful for the knowledge sharing as well as being able to reference others pictures.

 

[The kid]

Your pictures have got to be the best I've seen on here. Good job on your progress.

 

[klancf51]

Have also done some investigating on the new issue found. I do believe the pin I referenced before is broken and a new one has been ordered. I also found though that the position arm had gotten on the wrong side of one of the cam rollers.

View attachment 357689

This picture is the way it was found. I'm not sure how well you can see it due to the clutter. I'll try to get a picture of the correct installation later.

I have ordered new rollers as well for the position and draft as they will be easily accessible when the pin gets replaced. I'm hoping once these repairs get made, I will be able to properly adjust everything and get the cover back on the tractor.

This site has been wonderful for the knowledge sharing as well as being able to reference others pictures.

There have been posts on various sites where this problem is described as:

• "Position Control Not Working",
• "Lift only operates with Draft Control",
• "Position Control linkage is displaced",
• "MF135 Quadrant controls behaving strangely",
• "The position control seems to have no effect, and only the draft control raises and lowers the arms",
• etc

A symptom on the MF 135 is that the hydraulic pump control lever ( 897516M91) does not move in proportion to the position control hand lever (in fact the pump control lever just sort of "wiggles" when the position control lever is moved through its full range from "Transport" to fully "Down" and back). However, the draft control lever does operate the hydraulic pump control lever correctly.

While a broken position control return spring can cause similar problems, I think the position control cam becoming displaced from the cam roller is probably more common. I think we are on to the fix for this - the one Big Dean Austin described as: "the Position control has a piece of linkage that when you move the position lever to (sic) far it will jump out of place it will happen almost every time you do that. To get it back where it belongs you will have to remove the liftcover. I have a picture showing this & how to get it back in place." Unfortunately I believe that Big Dean never posted his pictures on this fix, opting instead to have others contact him directly.

If you can more precisely document this fix (perhaps in a new thread to separate it from your pump issue?) you will very likely help others save a lot of time and aggravation in the future. It would be a real service if you could do this so that tractorbynet.com will be a definitive resource for this issue.
Thanks.
Frank