Your last generator Maintenance Run

[daugen]

This is a pre start up report on my little Champion 2kw inverter gen.
It isn't going to start.
It didn't start without starting fluid (and I do know how to use it, in the filter element not down the throat of the carb) last time,
and it isn't going to start this weekend when I test it.
So....my thoughts are to dump out all the gas, ethanol free or not, and start over, and run it for several hours with a good slug
of Sea Foam in it. I bet it's that simple. Something must be sticking as I don't smell gas after pulling and pulling.
And no, with treated non ethanol gas, I haven't been running it dry. Sometimes that doesn't help either I've found in the past.

 

[Gary Fowler]

My Onan 4500 genset for my motorhome was always a bi##h to crank. It has set for about 2 years now without cranking so I though it time to do something. A neighbor was going to remove the carb and clean it but got sidetracked.

I bought an 18" piece of fuel line, attached it to the Onan fuel filter, filled it with Chemtron carb cleaner. Then using my vice grips pinched off the fuel supply line (electric fuel pump works when cranking engine). Then a couple of time cranking the engine, refilling the fuel line etc to insure I got the carb completely full of carb cleaner and then let it set for about 18 hours.
Took off the extra fuel line, then installed a 1/4" quarter turn ball valve in the existing fuel line so I can run the carb dry for storage, turned everything on and it started right up and purred like a kitten. It even started from inside the motor home like it was supposed to but had not worked since I bought the used motor home.

Sure was a lot easier than rebuilding the carb with a $70 carb kit or a new carb for $259!!!.

 

[3930dave]

Thanks. Yes it does excercise. I can't say, how unimpressed and annoyed I am with these Digital controls. Like hold this, and press that so many times! GARBAGE! It makes operating them impossible without the manual. I left the thing with the two breakers shut off, and I hope that the battery stays on charge. I only started looking at the thing as I was basically leaving (with my money).

Apparently it's not running really fast otherwise it would shut off right away. It's shutting off after a few seconds indicating only mildly over speed.

Also, there is no operator control panel in the house. In a prolonged outage, how should the elderly lady shut the thing off for a time? People buy stuff, that they have absolutely no capacity to deal with! Apparently she already spend a lot of money having a fifty cent diode replaced.

I wonder how they detect speed..... thinking of Hall effect sensors going flakey on vehicles...... but worth repeating - I have no direct knowledge of that Briggs engine and control system.

You have to be a certain age to appreciate how non-intuitive modern digital controls often are, but they don't have to be....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

This is a pre start up report on my little Champion 2kw inverter gen.
It isn't going to start.
It didn't start without starting fluid (and I do know how to use it, in the filter element not down the throat of the carb) last time,
and it isn't going to start this weekend when I test it.
So....my thoughts are to dump out all the gas, ethanol free or not, and start over, and run it for several hours with a good slug
of Sea Foam in it. I bet it's that simple. Something must be sticking as I don't smell gas after pulling and pulling.
And no, with treated non ethanol gas, I haven't been running it dry. Sometimes that doesn't help either I've found in the past.

Let us know how things turn out d......... I've stayed with wet storage successfully for years now (NonE and treated...), but there are good examples just in this thread of other approaches..... I'm a firm believer that whatever works for you/your equipment/your regional fuel formulations - Keep Doing It :thumbsup:

Haven't had a good look at inverter gens....... any chance they are using a vacuum control on the petcock ? Certain Japanese MC use that style...... off-chance that's what you have, check for a loose or leaking vac line.

I also know "A Guy" (really well ) who was having a fight with his newest gen starting 2'nd time out, only to realize that he'd forgotten that this new one had a factory fuel petcock ! Once I , er, I mean He, turned the fuel back on, all good...... :laughing:

I'd be trying the Seafoam too....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

My Onan 4500 genset for my motorhome was always a bi##h to crank. It has set for about 2 years now without cranking so I though it time to do something. A neighbor was going to remove the carb and clean it but got sidetracked.

I bought an 18" piece of fuel line, attached it to the Onan fuel filter, filled it with Chemtron carb cleaner. Then using my vice grips pinched off the fuel supply line (electric fuel pump works when cranking engine). Then a couple of time cranking the engine, refilling the fuel line etc to insure I got the carb completely full of carb cleaner and then let it set for about 18 hours.
Took off the extra fuel line, then installed a 1/4" quarter turn ball valve in the existing fuel line so I can run the carb dry for storage, turned everything on and it started right up and purred like a kitten. It even started from inside the motor home like it was supposed to but had not worked since I bought the used motor home.

Sure was a lot easier than rebuilding the carb with a $70 carb kit or a new carb for $259!!!.

Working Smarter...... liking that approach Gary !

Any decent carb cleaner should do the trick....... it's amazing how messed up seasonal or rarely used small engine carbs can get with deposits, even within the first year. Much of the time, the problem is just guck buildup, as opposed to a mechanical breakage.....

Motorhome gens have a hard life..... unless people are into dry-camping, they often rarely run, and usually have to deal with untreated and old fuel.....

Rgds, D.

 

[daugen]

Am pleased to report, belatedly, sorry, that my little Champion generator started on the third pull.
Maybe the extra dose of SeaFoam last time, who knows. Using premium non ethanol in it, gas should be ok for year I think.

We can put people on the moon but we can't seem to design a carburetor that cleans itself, or at least doesn't get gummed up.
Air compressors have automatic water drain systems, there must be a better way for small carbs. Even if I have to push a button, like a primer bulb,
and pump the gas out of the carb. Have had little luck with running carbs dry, don't think they get "dry" enough.

Is it mostly the jets that get clogged or is it the choke flapper valve? What stops the gas from getting through?

put my battery charger on the generator, too lazy to go pull out the heater from under a pile in the barn, and even at the 8amp charging rate, I couldn't get the
gen to switch from lower rpm econo mode to full rpm mode for a load situation. It ran the charger just fine too. Whatever load that charger had(now I'm curious and want to look at the spec plate) it wasn't enough to trigger the speed up process. Guess that means that tiny little engine makes some torque if it can handle the load without more rpm.

gen sits under its inexpensive oem vinyl cover in an open equipment shed, sheltered but not from bugs, so I'm always checking for mud wasps. Critters seem to love
machinery. Took a mouse nest off the top of the Super A engine two weeks ago. Nice little snug spot between the covers and the top of the engine. Took me awhile
before I got it all out. Anything that sits for awhile is considered a nice home to some it appears.

 

[3930dave]

Am pleased to report, belatedly, sorry, that my little Champion generator started on the third pull.
Maybe the extra dose of SeaFoam last time, who knows. Using premium non ethanol in it, gas should be ok for year I think.

We can put people on the moon but we can't seem to design a carburetor that cleans itself, or at least doesn't get gummed up.
Air compressors have automatic water drain systems, there must be a better way for small carbs. Even if I have to push a button, like a primer bulb,
and pump the gas out of the carb. Have had little luck with running carbs dry, don't think they get "dry" enough.

Is it mostly the jets that get clogged or is it the choke flapper valve? What stops the gas from getting through?

put my battery charger on the generator, too lazy to go pull out the heater from under a pile in the barn, and even at the 8amp charging rate, I couldn't get the
gen to switch from lower rpm econo mode to full rpm mode for a load situation. It ran the charger just fine too. Whatever load that charger had(now I'm curious and want to look at the spec plate) it wasn't enough to trigger the speed up process. Guess that means that tiny little engine makes some torque if it can handle the load without more rpm.

gen sits under its inexpensive oem vinyl cover in an open equipment shed, sheltered but not from bugs, so I'm always checking for mud wasps. Critters seem to love
machinery. Took a mouse nest off the top of the Super A engine two weeks ago. Nice little snug spot between the covers and the top of the engine. Took me awhile
before I got it all out. Anything that sits for awhile is considered a nice home to some it appears.

Glad to hear that things worked out d.

My money is on the jet having been the issue. Depending on carb design, there also may be other tiny orifices plugging too. One recent Fall here I was talking with a retired mechanic who was tearing into his neighbours snowblower, after only one season - had a brass cylinder with him out of the carb, about 1.25" long - the pinholes in the sides of it were totally plugged with white deposit.

Even with non-E fuel, I'd be sure to use something as a stablizer - I use non-E with either Stabil, Startron, or Seafoam added, always. I often rely on Seafoam for it's cleaning action, but any decent product will work.

8amps @ 13.8v is about 110 watts, so even if the charger is only 50% efficient (I'd expect better), you won't be pulling more than 250 watts with it. Anything using big heat will do - hair dryer, kettle or toaster should give plenty of load for that size - Tea and Toast in the Barn ?

My rule of thumb for untreated gas - if it sat for more than 30 days (but not years), it goes into a road vehicle that gets driven regularly.

Relative to their size, insects and mice cause a disproportionate amount of disruption to machinery.....

Rgds, D.

 

[daugen]

8amps @ 13.8v is about 110 watts

this made me chuckle, I should have known this, having owned a Radio Shack for five years.
It's not 8 amps at 120V...forgot the dropdown. I was wondering what kind of super efficient boost circuit that high tech charger had
to get 8amps out with almost nothing in.
Gen is very quiet at slower speed, not as quiet as Honda but about one quarter the cost.

 

[ultrarunner]

After 27 years of maintaining the Hospital Gensets with never anything but Exemplary Inspection reports... the Federal Inspector gave me a Fail this week.

Inspector said we are deficient not having an Independent outside agreement for at least annual service and load banking...

No where in the code can I find this requirement and the standard allows the Load itself to be used for testing providing we meet the minimum load requirement... which we do... generator powers all the critical and life safety requirements including large vacuum pumps, HVAC, heat coils, etc...

For an expenditure of 3k annually I can initiate a Service and Testing contract...

Just another example of why health care costs continue to rise. Inspector said we are the only facility she has visited without a Generator Contract.

Health Care is very big on outsourcing and PM contracts and service agreements... and these all come with a cost...

It is ironic in that when I came on board 27 years ago my sole duty was the emergency hospital generators...

 

[TractorGuy]

After 27 years of maintaining the Hospital Gensets with never anything but Exemplary Inspection reports... the Federal Inspector gave me a Fail this week.

Inspector said we are deficient not having an Independent outside agreement for at least annual service and load banking...

No where in the code can I find this requirement and the standard allows the Load itself to be used for testing providing we meet the minimum load requirement... which we do... generator powers all the critical and life safety requirements including large vacuum pumps, HVAC, heat coils, etc...

For an expenditure of 3k annually I can initiate a Service and Testing contract...

Just another example of why health care costs continue to rise. Inspector said we are the only facility she has visited without a Generator Contract.

Health Care is very big on outsourcing and PM contracts and service agreements... and these all come with a cost...

It is ironic in that when I came on board 27 years ago my sole duty was the emergency hospital generators...

Another inspector trying to justify their existence. I ran into this type stuff with boiler inspectors when I was maintaining some research autoclaves. My experience was the opposite. I only had one visit that was a total pass and that was when I had the same inspector two years running. I developed a rapport with him after I saved his azz form getting scalded. He was telling me I had to leave all the sight level gauge valves open. I insisted it wasn't going to happen on my watch because they would wear and explode. I agreed to have them all open when he came if he let me know what day he would arrive. He offered to close one set of valves for me after the inspection and I stopped him because the unit was hot. That night the glass blew and spewed steam until the safety tripped. I took a picture of the paper thin glass tube and emailed it to him. The tubes would start out with an 1/8" hole in a 1/2" tube and wear out from water going up and down in them until they broke.

Problem was most years we got a new inspector. Most had their own interpretation of the rules and readily threatened to pull the plug on your units unless you agreed with them and made the changes they required. The last inspector failed everything including the installation that had passed every other inspection ever done.