Proper operation of FEL with hydraulic reverser transmission?

[bam747]

I am trying to figure out the proper way to use a FEL on a tractor with a hydraulic power reverser transmission.

As I understand it, the hydraulic reversers use two hydraulic clutch packs to engage forward and reverse motion. These hydraulic "wet" clutches are designed to take a lot more abuse from "slipping" versus the main transmission dry clutch.

Where I'm getting confused is not with the simple act of reversing the transmissions, but which clutch I should "slip" as I dig into that final few inches of a pile of whatever with the FEL to fill the bucket.

Do you use the left hand reverser lever to slip the hydraulic forward clutch or do you use your left foot to slip the main transmission clutch? Can you even modulate your forward/reverse motion with the reverser control or is it a "digital" all or nothing control?

My experience for the past 30 years is with an old JD 1020 tractor without a reverser and I've always slipped the main transmission clutch (only a little bit!) when filling up its FEL bucket. BTW, this tractor is still going strong with its original clutch at 2800 hours.

Thanks in advance for your feed back.

 

[pat32rf]

I've only used Case reversers but I've always been told that the reverser is for FEL work. The other clutch is to choose your Hi-Lo ranges. On the 580's and 680's that i've used you can ease the reverser in and out gradually...

 

[daTeacha]

Is a hydraulic reverser like a shuttle shift? I've never heard the term before.

 

[bam747]

Yes, hydraulic reverser, or hydraulic shuttle are terms for a "shuttle shift" transmission. There are also "mechanical reverser" systems that use mechanical clutches rather than hydraulic clutches.

In any case I am talking about a "geared transmission with left hand reverser". More specifically, I'm talking about the larger utility class tractor rather than the compact utility class tractor, which can also be had with hydraulic or mechanical reverser/shuttle shift transmissions.

In the Kubota M series, they call it a "Hydraulic Shuttle". In the John Deere 5025 series they call it the "PowrReverser" (their spelling). The New Holland TND-A series calls it the "Electro-hydraulic power reverser". All use hydraulic wet forward and reverse clutches (independent from the main transmission dry clutch). Some are manually controlled, some are electronically controlled.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I know what you're talking about, but I was under the impression that the same clutch was used whether you pushed the foot pedal or used the shuttle lever. I could be wrong.

I think the preferred approach is to use the shuttle lever whenever you can, and use the pedal when you can't use the lever. I'm not sure if the lever gives you any option to slip the clutch rather than just engage or disengage. If it does, great, I would use that. If not, you are back to the pedal. FWIW I think these tractors are really intended for pushing into loose piles where clutch slipping isn't required and not for something like digging or delicate pickups. It's notable that ag tractors have this setup, commercial/construction loaders usually have HST or sometimes a torque converter transmission, and commercial landscaping tractors usually have a torque converter transmission.

 

[bam747]

I know what you're talking about, but I was under the impression that the same clutch was used whether you pushed the foot pedal or used the shuttle lever. I could be wrong.

Nope...

There really are three separate clutches on the machines I'm talking about. These "high end" hydraulic reverser transmissions are designed for day in and day out FEL use. At least that's how they're advertised.

Note that I do not have plans to run this type of tractor 8 hours a day doing back and forth loader work and nothing but. I just want to understand if I should be using the forward/neutral/reverse "shuttle shift" lever to modulate my forward and reverse motion when I am digging with the FEL. I "think" this is how it should be done with this type of transmission, but I want to make sure.

 

[pat32rf]

Thats the way they are used in the construction trade, all day long.....Thats why they had them on most back-hoes.

 

[daTeacha]

When I was tractor shopping, I looked at a couple of shuttle shift machines. The dealers all said the same thing -- move the shuttle lever to reverse even when the tractor is still moving forward and vice versa. It will stop and change directions nice as can be. They wanted the speed selector left alone until after the direction change was accomplished.

It was a couple of years ago, but I think it was the Massey dealer that said to just move the lever and not even bother with the clutch pedal. I'm going to GUESS that there are differences between brands and that some are purely hydraulic and thus don't need any clutching action (like a hydro tranny), while others have some kind of clutch plates involved, either wet or dry.

Can you tell us which brand and model you are talking about? There is probably someone here who is very familiar with that particular machine.

 

[bam747]

I'm specifically looking at the Kubota M8540 with the optional hydraulic shuttle 12-speed geared transmission. It could just as well be a JD 5x25 series or a New Holland TN or TL series.

These hydraulic reverser transmissions are pretty much the norm for an advanced transmission option on utility Ag tractors specifically targeted for significant FEL use. I know of no utility Ag tractors that offer the CUT style hydrostatic transmission.

I've also been given the "just use the lever to change directions and the tractor will smoothly change directions" description. Still, depending on what you are digging into with the FEL, you need to do the "push, lift a little, curl a little, push again, and repeat" shuffle to get a full bucket of material. It's that "push" part that I've been doing by slipping the main clutch (in very low gears) that I'm assuming you do with the hydraulic shuttle forward clutch.

 

[tuolumne]

I have the JD3520 with this transmission. I've been slipping the main clutch for this task just because that's what my brain has been trained to do...my only previous experiance is gear tractors. Next time I have a chance I'll try slipping the reverser to see what happens. I know that it goes forward to reverse as smooth as can be, even on steep hills. I've always just thrown it one way or the other, never slipped.