Is it time to consider electric?

[Fixastuff]

some mowing contracts now require electric. Just like before electric some required propane. So it may make $ sense if it gives access to contracts that probably pay better than homeowners any way.

The quiet of electric could allow crews to start a few hours earlier in the morning in neighborhoods where sound is an issue.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I thought I had reposted a chart on the Greenworks mowers somewhere, but I can't seem to locate it at the moment.

However, you can calculate fuel/electric cost differences here:

Calculate your savings

STEP 1: We've prepopulated this form with national averages for cost of electric and gasoline. Select your State Gas Price / Gallon Price/kWh: Gas and electricity prices sourced from eia.gov STEP 2: Choose the equivalent Greenworks Tools™ and equipment by category Equipment Category: ANY...

www.greenworkscommercial.com

The question is about how much you're using it. If you're mowing your lawn for 15 minutes every two weeks, then the commercial grade mower is probably not the one for you.

If you are doing commercial mowing with it, then it may be worth it.

They're supposed to be quite a bit quieter which would be nice.

Say you're mowing for 700 hours a year at 1.5 gallons per hour and $4 a gallon, and you're up to over $4000 a year in gas or diesel. And if electricity rates are reasonable, it might be a couple hundred in electricity. I don't know how the maintenance costs add up, but you have the periodic oil and filters to change for the gas/diesel engines.

Anyway, if you save $4000 a year in operating costs, then over the period of a few years it will save the capital cost difference.

Each business will have to determine if it meets their goals.

Sure!
Except two very important points you miss:
1) The average lifespan of a lawn mower battery is approximately three years. The typical estimated life of a Lithium-Ion battery is about two to three years or 300 to 500 charge cycles, whichever occurs first. Some high-quality lithium-ion batteries can last up to five years with proper care and maintenance.
2) Invest that $17,000 savings. Even just a bank CD (Friday our bank was 5.25%)...that in itself is about $900/yr.

 

[Coffee drinker]

I experience it every time i hit the pump or the grocery store any store for that matter… just close my eyes and swipe the card.

Just remember you are saving the planet.

 

[CliffordK]

Think about the cost to the consumer if fuel used in every step of food production is taxed. From when the seed is placed in the ground until it is food on consumer's plates, we have multiple steps requiring fuel, all of them being taxed.

Red dye off road diesel is not taxed around here. While for my typical diesel use getting tax free diesel is a hassle, the large farmers get the tax free diesel.

I think much of the commercial marine fuel is also tax free.

Railroad diesel is also tax free.

On road trucks will still get either fuel taxes or weight mile taxes.

Anyway, you aren't getting hit by double or triple fuel taxes.

 

[CliffordK]

Sure!
Except two very important points you miss:
1) The average lifespan of a lawn mower battery is approximately three years. The typical estimated life of a Lithium-Ion battery is about two to three years or 300 to 500 charge cycles, whichever occurs first. Some high-quality lithium-ion batteries can last up to five years with proper care and maintenance.
2) Invest that $17,000 savings. Even just a bank CD (Friday our bank was 5.25%)...that in itself is about $900/yr.

Yep, there is a cost of up front capital, although the difference would decrease as one is buying more fuel every year.

Not all petroleum powered mowers and mower engines are the same. If you purchase the cheapest on the market, don't expect it to last a lifetime of heavy commercial use. Are big commercial users replacing worn engines, or just dumping blown up mowers?

That is a good question about battery technology being used in the different batteries.

The automobile industry has favored longer life batteries. My EV is over a dozen years old, and has close enough to its original range for me. Many of the EVs are getting over 100,000 miles, so quite some time on the road and a bunch of charge cycles. So, perhaps a thousand, or several thousand charge cycles.

The federal government requires manufacturers to offer an eight-year/100,000-mile warranty on all EV batteries. California does one better, mandating a warranty of 10 years or 150,000 miles. Some companies will cover a battery only if it completely stops working, while others will replace the battery if it falls below a certain capacity, usually 70% of the original, while still under warranty.

How Do EV Battery Warranties Work? | Capital One Auto Navigator

Not all electric vehicle battery warranties are created equal.

www.capitalone.com

Ahhh, found the Greenworks warranty:

24kWh 60 Inch Commercial Ride-On Mower | Greenworks Commercial

OptimusZ Zero Turn Ride-On Mower: Unleash the power of 24kWh battery & 60-inch deck for efficient, eco-friendly, and fast mowing. Get yours today!

www.greenworkscommercial.com

Commercial ZTR Warranty: 5-year or 2,000-hour warranty
NEW residential/consumer warranty on our COMMERCIAL ZTRs: 7-year or 700-hour warranty
Commercial UTV warranty: 5-year battery warranty, 2-year bumper to bumper warranty

I'm not finding the exact Greenworks battery chemistry listed. I'll have to disassemble some of their batteries, but I don't have access to any of their commercial zero turn mower packs. I think their typical batteries are warrantied for 2 years. Most of my 40V batteries are older than that, but they don't get heavy commercial use.

Anyway, 2,000 hours would be moderately heavy use for a few years.

I suggested above for a gas mower, 1.5 GPH x hours x $4 = 1.5 GPH x 2,000 hrs x $4 = about $12,000 worth of fuel before one would hit the Greenworks warranty time.

For my chainsaws, I dislike dropping down below 25% remaining charge before recharging.

Hopefully the commercial zero turn mowers aren't being pushed to zero state of charge daily.

Note, in the EV world, a 24 kWh battery pack (Greenworks largest) would be considered absolutely tiny.

 

[Hay Dude]

I thought I had reposted a chart on the Greenworks mowers somewhere, but I can't seem to locate it at the moment.

However, you can calculate fuel/electric cost differences here:

Calculate your savings

STEP 1: We've prepopulated this form with national averages for cost of electric and gasoline. Select your State Gas Price / Gallon Price/kWh: Gas and electricity prices sourced from eia.gov STEP 2: Choose the equivalent Greenworks Tools™ and equipment by category Equipment Category: ANY...

www.greenworkscommercial.com

The question is about how much you're using it. If you're mowing your lawn for 15 minutes every two weeks, then the commercial grade mower is probably not the one for you.

If you are doing commercial mowing with it, then it may be worth it.

They're supposed to be quite a bit quieter which would be nice.

Say you're mowing for 700 hours a year at 1.5 gallons per hour and $4 a gallon, and you're up to over $4000 a year in gas or diesel. And if electricity rates are reasonable, it might be a couple hundred in electricity. I don't know how the maintenance costs add up, but you have the periodic oil and filters to change for the gas/diesel engines.

Anyway, if you save $4000 a year in operating costs, then over the period of a few years it will save the capital cost difference.

Each business will have to determine if it meets their goals.

Whoa fella.

You forgot a couple of VERY significant things.

1. 700 hours a year is a lot. Few put that many hours on them. I’d say 500 is more realistic in a multi-unit mower commercial operation. In my case, I only cut grass 25 +/- weeks a year. And might put 10-15 hours on each mower as I am not a full time grass mowing company. We mow 2+ days per week and farm or do property maintenance the rest of the days. So we use ours 250-300 hours per year.

The “65HP gas engine equivalent” claim is farcical. Let’s just both agree that is simply ridiculous.

2. A 60” or even a 72” zero turn with a diesel engine is $19,000 not $27,000. How do I know? I just bought a new Kubota ZD-1211-72”.
So I start out $8,000 ahead of electric and I have a 12” wider cut and I have a proven, name brand commercial mower with millions of hours of commercial use around the world.

3. A 12” wider cut (72” v 60”) is about 20% faster, so less hours/faster speed and less wear.

4. The $8,000 I save is significant up front savings towards fuel. Even not invested, it would probably buy 5+ years worth of fuel in my case.

5. My guess is the electric 60” mower battery packs start to degrade in power after a few years and don’t hold charge as long. A diesel zero turn will run 10+ years with few repairs. The engine won’t degrade (hold less charge like electric).

6. There’s no way an electric 60” would pencil for $27,000 (plus tax). I can’t see one of them holding up for more than a few years in a commercial operation. The brand of electric mower you have there (Greenworks) is hardly a household name in commercial mowers.

All that said, keep improving them. If the playing field is level, I’ll pick the one that’s better.

 

[DarkBlack]

Not cheap??? $28,000 not cheap! Compare that to an $11,000 61" Ferris!!!
People that believe that $17,000 more difference will "pay for itself" has their head up their......CORNPOP!

$28k battery lawnmower. That’s insane

 

[DarkBlack]

That was true. However, they are currently have the largest solar installations globally, with more than the US, and Europe combined.

They are also the #1 producer (and buyers) of electric vehicles.

……They have a population of 1.41 Billion people.

The U.S. has 341 million.

Counting All of Europe including Eastern, (Russia , Bulgaria,etc) , western, northern, and southern countries is 742 million.
Combined with the U.S. that’s still only 1.083 billion.
Does your solar statistic include all Europe, or just Western Europe?

China’s “environmental accomplishments” don’t look so great when you proportion it to their huge population

 

[MossRoad]

So every time I bring up the fact that the US far outpaces China in GDP per capita,

List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I get told I can't compare that because so many people in China are rural, slave labor, etc...

But now the same folks are comparing that same X/person statistic and agreeing wholeheartedly because... hypocrisy.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

$28k battery lawnmower. That’s insane

Here we go!!! I just now chatted with Greenworks. Please read!!!