1850 (maybe 1845 too) - Replacement oil cooler

[Charlie_Iliff]

I can't tell anything from the drawing, but I understand the explanation. A taller oil radiator with bigger openings would let more through, and go longer between cleanings, but I think would still clog, at times.
When I first had the heating problem, I was irritated, as each of you has been. Once I taped screen wire over all expanded metal on the engine compartment, however, it is just a matter of paying attention to sweeping the chaff off the screen every hour or so and thoroughly cleaning the oil radiator before going out. That takes 10 minutes -- 20 if I take the deflector off and wash it out.
Last weekend, I mowed 10 acres of very heavy growth with considerable chaff, at ambient temperature over 90 the whole time. I never got an alarm.
On my old Jacobsen front mower, I had to clean the air filter nearly as often. It is unavoidable on a front mower, but a worthwhile tradeoff for seeing what you're cutting.
Altavista, I understand your frustration, but have you tried the screen wire? It is also really important to take off the top deflector and use a light to make sure you get the radiator really clean. I was astonished how much clogging there still was even after blowing it out. Once I got it really clean, however, with air followed by soap and water, I have been able to keep it working so that I've never interrupted a day's work to do more than brush off the chaff directly in line with the intake. By paying attention, I can mow in as hot weather as I can stand, with the needle steady at about 220.
After looking at filter systems on high-end equipment, I bought a centrifugal dust filter, but have never fabricated the mount. Some day I'll do it. That fix is a lot cheaper than a $1,000 radiator, but a lot more than a layer of screen, Combines, big hay mowers, etc. often use elaborate filter systems, and a lot of tractors have a fine filter ahead of the radiator, even for rear-mounted equipment. We're not alone.

 

[Bob999]

i got through the sales guy at the local distributorship this morning and he forwarded me an email from an engineer at Deutz, and a drawing. since the drawing's a PDF, here's a link to it (i don't thing PDFs work as attachments)

http://www.haven.com/22009602.pdf

and here's what the engineer said;


i can't quite make sense out of the drawing -- it doesn't quite look like the same part. but i'm at The Other House and can't run out and look at the PT. if somebody could do some measurements on theirs to confirm that this is the right part, t'would be great (note -- this is a sub assembly drawing, and that's part of what's got me confused).

the "duct" he's talking about is that flat metal plate that bolts on the top side of the cooling fins. Charlie takes this off when he cleans his, i don't (too lazy and i don't have the wrench needed to remove those goofy star-shaped bolt-heads).

another thing that caught my eye is the engineer talking about "debris allowed into the blower". we ain't got no steenking blower, ours is passively cooled. so it may be that there's a blower/filter that we could add to force more air through these fins too. or, it may be that i've got the wrong part here. i'm gonna call the (smarter) parts guy back at the distributor. i may cheat and call the engineer directly, although i'm holding that card in reserve.

On my 1845 there is a fan mounted on the alternator that provides forced air to the oil cooler. I think the 1845 (a 3 cylinder engine) and the 1850 (a 4 cylinder engine) are functionally the same and I expect that the 1850 has a fan mounted at the alternator also.

I agree with Charlie that the addition of screen substantially reduces the tendency to overheat. I bought fiberglass screening because it had smaller spacing and have only placed it on the rear of the engine cover. I did not put it on the sides because the exhaust is directed out one side and the oil cooler vents out the other side. During dry weather I will fairly quickly get a round collection of debris at the intake to the oil cooler fan (mounted on the alternator). However, I am able to operate for the two hours it takes me to mow without stopping to clean the screen and without getting an alarm. Typically I will see 220 on the temperature guage. I only have to remove the air deflector and carefully blow out the radiator every 3 mowings or so.

 

[J_J]

Since that engine is air cooled, it has to have a blower or fan to either blow or suck air across the engine. Perhaps a larger fan or blower, more blades on the blade assembly, a different pulley to give more speed hence more velocity. From working with VW and Corvair engines, air cooling was a major factor in the heat transfer of those engines. That is the disadvantage in air cooled engines, if you can't keep them cooled with in spec's, they will simply come apart. I have seen cracked heads, and melted heads. Heat was the culprit. You never did say if the temp gage on the dash reads the head temp. One other thing you might try, and that is to change out the temp gage, and or sensor. Do you happen to have one of those temp reading devices that you aim at the source to read the surface temperature? Do all the heads read the same temp? Just my opinion.

 

[AltavistaLawn]

........

Altavista, I understand your frustration, but have you tried the screen wire? It is also really important to take off the top deflector and use a light to make sure you get the radiator really clean. I was astonished how much clogging there still was even after blowing it out. Once I got it really clean, however, with air followed by soap and water, I have been able to keep it working so that I've never interrupted a day's work to do more than brush off the chaff directly in line with the intake. By paying attention, I can mow in as hot weather as I can stand, with the needle steady at about 220.
After looking at filter systems on high-end equipment, I bought a centrifugal dust filter, but have never fabricated the mount. Some day I'll do it. That fix is a lot cheaper than a $1,000 radiator, but a lot more than a layer of screen, Combines, big hay mowers, etc. often use elaborate filter systems, and a lot of tractors have a fine filter ahead of the radiator, even for rear-mounted equipment. We're not alone.

I'll try this next. I already bought the screen, a while back. I'm also taking the hydro cooler off and clean it out really good. I'll look into fabbing a air intake filter also, it will have to be very easily cleaned and not restrict air flow much.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

For some time, Sedgewood had a cover over the intake fan with screen. As I recall a fairly recent post, he's gone to a furnace/AC or similar filter, and I think gets longer between cleanings than I, right Sedgewood?
The air into the fan is a fairly high velocity column, so attracts a lot of chaff directly in line, but little from the sides. Screen just over the fan intake would do the job, but you have to open the cover to wipe it off. I prefer the screen outside the back, since the chaff cakes on it in a circle that is easily brushed off.
Just to be sure there's no misunderstanding, each time I've referred to the radiator in prior posts, I've meant the horizontal oil cooler on the side of the engine. The fan sucks air from the back which blows up through the radiator, and then is deflected to the side by the tilted plate on top of the radiator. That is held down by torx type bolts. Those also hold the radiator to the engine, with metal to metal rather than o-rings, so care is needed when cleaning it with that deflector off. I haven't been able to get the radiator completely clean without taking the deflector off, however, and looking through the radiator to a light. (A 12 point metric socket works on the bolts, 6mm, as I recall, but I'm not sure.)
I also blow out the hydraulic radiator in the top of the hood occasionally, but that doesn't affect engine temps. I've never had a concern about the hydraulic oil overheating. It shows no signs of burning after a lot of hot hours.
The temperature gauge is oil temperature, from a sender in the block. I don't know if it's accurate to a degree, but when it says the engine is hot, the engine is hot.
Technically, I think these engines are oil cooled as opposed to air cooled. I also played with Corvairs in years past, as well as with air-cooled airplanes. The oil cooling on the Deutz is much more akin to liquid cooled engines than pure air cooled. There is not the danger of excessive head temperatures, for instance, unless you are boiling the oil to the extent that the passages are empty. I've overheated the Deutz a number of times without any apparent damage. There are no air cooling fins on cylinders or head; all cooling is done by the oil circulating through the engine and then being cooled in the oil radiator.

 

[AltavistaLawn]

Very true, it is oil cooled.

The upper deflector can be removed with 8mm socket, and the lower side panel can be taken off with a 13mm. I've removed both many, many times.

 

[Sedgewood]

For some time, Sedgewood had a cover over the intake fan with screen. As I recall a fairly recent post, he's gone to a furnace/AC or similar filter, and I think gets longer between cleanings than I, right Sedgewood?

Right.

The air into the fan is a fairly high velocity column, so attracts a lot of chaff directly in line, but little from the sides. Screen just over the fan intake would do the job, but you have to open the cover to wipe it off. I prefer the screen outside the back, since the chaff cakes on it in a circle that is easily brushed off.

I tried several experiments with moving the surface of the filter BACK AWAY from the fan intake and found that to be an important factor in getting longer mowing times between cleanings. With the effective face of the screen moved farther away from the fan intake, the air flow at the screen is more dispersed with a lower velocity and it collects much less chaff. I settled on the nonwoven filter stuff rather than the screen - it works much better at filtering the finer chaff and doesn't get it's shorts in a bunch when I back into a tree. Try it. I bought a roll of that black nonwoven stuff used for asphault shingle ridge vent and zip tied 4 layers of it over the back of the engine house. That sets the surface about 2-1/2 inches back which is enough to practically eliminate the chaff circle. I also have the sides of the engine house covered with insect screening and I've added weatherstripping to seal the bottom edge of the engine house to the tub.

I tend to disagree with the idea of adding a bigger cooler (yeah, I had that idea once too). My experience tells me the existing cooler works fine IF IT'S CLEAN!! Keep the chaff out and all is well. My Rube Goldberg filters and screens work well enough that I've quit trying to improve on them.

Sedgewood

 

[BobRip]

Right.

I tend to disagree with the idea of adding a bigger cooler (yeah, I had that idea once too). My experience tells me the existing cooler works fine IF IT'S CLEAN!! Keep the chaff out and all is well. My Rube Goldberg filters and screens work well enough that I've quit trying to improve on them.

Sedgewood

I call that the Minimum Necessary Change (MNC). Simple. easy to do, and low risk of messing up the machine.

Bob Rip

 

[AltavistaLawn]

Sedgewood,

Got any pics? I'd love to see the filter set up.

 

[Sedgewood]

Sedgewood,

Got any pics? I'd love to see the filter set up.

Yeah, here's a couple I took this morning of a dirty tractor. As I've said, it's nothing fancy, but it works pretty well. Except for the taping on of the screening

There's a little more detail on my website at http://www.coxontool.com/index.php/PowerTrac/Cooling

Sedgewood