2 stage pump question

[polemidis]

I think I got it the idea with the unloader valve. I think this is a good video

. But
a) where do you find these valves? Surpluscenter has some with a lot less pressure range, baileys has none. Or is it just a regular relief valve that when you add the check valve you call it "unloader valve?
b) Have you seen the 6K Products - The Simple Saw? Even the "DH0612" uses a .404 And he suggests a 0.7 pump. Don't you think that a 16hp gas engine with a 0.7 pump would be a good pair?
c) big engines cost a lot of money. Any used alternatives? Could I use a engine from a small old car, or a motorcycle if I go to higher hp? I cant find anything on google:confused3:

 

[muddstopper]

A:You will just have to check the internet to find a unloader valve. I think spliteze sells one, might check out their website.
B: '7cuin pump @3600rpms is 11gpm and at 2000psi, and is about all your 16hp engine will pull. Just enough to pull your saw motor, not any power left for anything else.
C: 20-25hp engines are a dime a dozen on old lawn tractors. Most will be electric start. Disadvantage is you have to make a pump mount, you cant just order one and bolt it up.
D:6K Products - The Simple Saw Formly Danzco. I talked to them when I was looking for parts for my processor build. If you read thru his parts list, you will see some of his numbers dont add up. For one he is saying a .7cuin pump pumping 10-14gpm being pulled with a 13hp engine @3600rpms. Not at 2000psi he isnt.

 

[polemidis]

If you read thru his parts list, you will see some of his numbers dont add up. For one he is saying a .7cuin pump pumping 10-14gpm being pulled with a 13hp engine @3600rpms. Not at 2000psi he isnt.

Yeah, I noticed already. I was getting different numbers form the surpluscenter's formula page, and took me a while to figure out the truth. (Its hard when you just start learnig to have wrong info )

Ok, so I will use a smaller chainsaw chain then if I go with my 16hp, i trust you
Right now I am working on the CAD design. It will take me a while, and then I will focus on the hydraulics.

 

[MossRoad]

C: 20-25hp engines are a dime a dozen on old lawn tractors. Most will be electric start. Disadvantage is you have to make a pump mount, you cant just order one and bolt it up..

There are MANY pump mounts that bolt up directly to those size engines.

Here's just one source...
Hydraulic pump mounting bracket to small engines for log splitters

 

[muddstopper]

There are MANY pump mounts that bolt up directly to those size engines.

Here's just one source...
Hydraulic pump mounting bracket to small engines for log splitters

Moss, I didnt see a single mount in your link that fit a vertical shaft engine. Most of your riding mower engines are vertical shaft and have a similar 10" bolt circle on the bottom, but the 4 bolts that hold the engine down to the mower frame are not evenly 90* spacing. I have seen factory made mounts for vertical engines, but I long lost the link for that site, and I havent found the link since. If you run across someone selling vertical engine pump mounts please post a link, I know many, including myself, that would like to find one.

 

[muddstopper]

Yeah, I noticed already. I was getting different numbers form the surpluscenter's formula page, and took me a while to figure out the truth. (Its hard when you just start learnig to have wrong info )

Ok, so I will use a smaller chainsaw chain then if I go with my 16hp, i trust you
Right now I am working on the CAD design. It will take me a while, and then I will focus on the hydraulics.

Dont trust me, I am just a hack, not a engineer. I believe my information is correct, but always do your own research.
I started a long journey building my processor several years ago. Sadly, several surgeries and medical problems have prevented me from completeing my project. I still work on it, but the urgency to complete it just isnt there anymore. I will make a suggestion to anybody planning on building a processor, Make a plan and stick to it. My processor started out as just a addon to my current splitter, I figured what I wanted and started scroungeing parts. I found I could build a bigger processor for about the same money as it cost to build a small one. I found a deal on some big cyl for the splitter so why use small cyl. I found a deal on a large motor to use for the chainsaw, why use a smaller motor. I got a deal on a twin pump, with lots of fluid flow, why settle for a small pump and slow cycle times. The thing got blown out of proportions for what I actually needed. With my bigger cyl, bigger, motors, bigger pumps, I needed a bigger engine, and I had already bought and had to sell a engine to buy one big enough to pull everything with.

Best advise I can give you is decide what you need and stick to the plan, because when you start building and then start making changes, its going to cost you. Also, if I had stuck to my original plan, my processor would have been completed and making wood a long time ago.

 

[polemidis]

Dont trust me, I am just a hack, not a engineer. I believe my information is correct, but always do your own research.
I started a long journey building my processor several years ago. Sadly, several surgeries and medical problems have prevented me from completeing my project. I still work on it, but the urgency to complete it just isnt there anymore. I will make a suggestion to anybody planning on building a processor, Make a plan and stick to it. My processor started out as just a addon to my current splitter, I figured what I wanted and started scroungeing parts. I found I could build a bigger processor for about the same money as it cost to build a small one. I found a deal on some big cyl for the splitter so why use small cyl. I found a deal on a large motor to use for the chainsaw, why use a smaller motor. I got a deal on a twin pump, with lots of fluid flow, why settle for a small pump and slow cycle times. The thing got blown out of proportions for what I actually needed. With my bigger cyl, bigger, motors, bigger pumps, I needed a bigger engine, and I had already bought and had to sell a engine to buy one big enough to pull everything with.

Best advise I can give you is decide what you need and stick to the plan, because when you start building and then start making changes, its going to cost you. Also, if I had stuck to my original plan, my processor would have been completed and making wood a long time ago.

You are absolutely right. The way I approach each project, is to make the CAD file first before do or buy anything. In this case it happpend to have the gas engine.This is were I am right now,
at the very begggining.
Make the CAD. Spend a few days/weeks just look at it again and again, ask people what will fail, what they can add etc. And then when everything is ready, CAD, Bill of Materials, its the hard stage, finding the money to buy the materials!:thumbdown: Doing so, even if something throw the project off track, I can get back to it anytime later.
And my way to pay back the community is to open source it so the next one can take it further. It feels good also!

 

[goeduck]

ok, got it. So, going for 2 circuits then. One with for the splitter with 2-stage pump, one for the rest of the stuff. Thank you

Moss stacked pump idea is good so you can match the pump to the need. I would support the end of the stack so the weight is not all on the initial pump/engine flange.

 

[MossRoad]

Moss, I didnt see a single mount in your link that fit a vertical shaft engine. Most of your riding mower engines are vertical shaft and have a similar 10" bolt circle on the bottom, but the 4 bolts that hold the engine down to the mower frame are not evenly 90* spacing. I have seen factory made mounts for vertical engines, but I long lost the link for that site, and I havent found the link since. If you run across someone selling vertical engine pump mounts please post a link, I know many, including myself, that would like to find one.

DOH! Verticle. I was thinking horizontal.

 

[muddstopper]

Its not that big a deal to make a pump ,ount for vertical engine. Most of the larger hp engines have a 10" bolt circle, but the holes are not evenly spaced. You are making a motor mount anyways so just draw out a pump mount bolt pattern and the 10in bolt circle on a flat plate drill and bolt the pump mount to the base plate. If one is careful and center punches all the bolt holes, alignment issues wont be a problem.
common vertical bolt pattern, https://www.smallenginesforless.com/uploads/2/5/2/9/25294533/common_vertical_bolt_pattern.jpg