2002 4300 HST hydraulic problems

[arkvet]

I've been a lurker on the site for a few years now... Came in very handy when I was shopping for my tractor. I'm a novice hobby farmer that loves to deer and turkey hunt. This 4300 is mostly for brush hogging, finish mowing and ground prep for food plots- then planting It's got about 1200 hours and has been serviced well over the years

I started the tractor yesterday and immediately noticed the joystick for the 420 FEL seemed to stick. The loader seemed to work at close to (if not completely) normal speed but I had to manually pull it back to the neutral setting in one direction (don't remember which one). It worked fine though (no load in the bucket though). Steering seemed fine.

I had a big 6 foot disk on the 3pt. Lifting the disk didn't seem slow but it did feel like it might have very subtly robbed the tractor of just a little rpm. When pressing the forward HST pedal the tractor was definitely lacking power. It would go but just felt like the hp had been cut in half. I hadn't used the tractor in a while and all sounded well... and I didn't have much to disk... so I thought I'd just take off and see if the problem would correct itself. The fluid window on the back showed adequate fluid and it didn't look cloudy.

This disk is pretty heavy and it's all my 4300 wants to pull. When I dropped the disk I could really feel that lack of HP. I was in the 2nd range which is what I usually disk and mow with. I only use the 1st range when using a breaking plow or brush hogging really big stuff. It honestly felt like I was trying to pull the disk in the 3rd gear range or even slightly weaker than that. Within a minute or two I started hearing a really loud whine or squeal that sounded like it was coming from right under my seat (tranny). The noise was only present when I was pressing the HST pedal. Don't worry the noise didn't last long because it scared the crap out of me and I shut er down! I checked my fluids in the field which looked fine. I unhooked the disk right where we sat and re-started and "limped" carefully back to the shop. With the removal of the 3pt load the squeal went away but the hp still seemed really lacking. I was just happy to make it back to my shop.

Steering seems fine and the loader other than some sticking with the joystick seems to work "ok". Main issue is just lack of HP with the tractor.

On a side note the parking break light won't turn off anymore. I used to be able to get it to turn off by really slamming my foot on the brake pedal. Now it stays on all the time, even though it doesn't feel to be dragging at all. I think this is also why my cruise control won't stay on??? Never used cruise much anyway, so haven't even looked at what the cause of that issue might be.

I've done a lot of browsing through the archives and have read similar stories but wanted to give you my exact set of symptoms and see if you could maybe pinpoint the most likely place to start looking for the problem. I have the service manual and have read a lot but it is somewhat overwhelming. I have no problem with working on small engines with carburetors and can do most anything if I have the tools and information... but small diesel tractors were not something I've grown up around.

I call a guy that lives close by that is great at working on tractors. He's not expensive and will get it fixed. Only problem there is that he said it would be at least 4 weeks before he could get to me. I'd really like the use of the tractor before then so am thinking of tackling this issue myself.

I was planning to drain and replace the hydraulic fluid and change out the hydraulic filter. Oh and clean the mesh filter and the bottom. There are probably other checks that should be done along the way... Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!

Thanks!

Brent

 

[kennyd]

Welcome to TBN!

Just some key points to check as I am on limited access:

-check the air filter and fuel filter, both can cause the lack of power you described
-be sure the brakes are releasing, the shaft the goes through the rear of the hub is known to sieze up, and/or the return springs are known to break
-check the hydro fluid for a foamy or milky appearance, especially if your maching is stored outside

 

[BRBurns]

I bet your brake is stuck on. I have the same tractor and have had that happen. Follow the brake linkage back to the rear housing on each side. take a hammer and tap the lever on the housing towards the front of the tractor. There is probably corrosion where the rod enters the housing and you will have to spray with PB Blaster or such and work back and forth for a while to get it to free up. Search the forum for stuck brakes and you will see it is common.

 

[arkvet]

-check the air filter and fuel filter, both can cause the lack of power you described
-be sure the brakes are releasing, the shaft the goes through the rear of the hub is known to sieze up, and/or the return springs are known to break
-check the hydro fluid for a foamy or milky appearance, especially if your maching is stored outside

I pulled the air filter in the field and it was VERY dirty. Tapped it enough to knock out a ton of the the dirt. Still need to replace it I'm sure. Didn't notice improvement with HP going back to the shop... but then again I had unhooked the disk so hard to tell with that big change.
Fuel filter hasn't been checked but it's now on my list.
Brakes - both replies mention brakes so "see below"
Hydro fluid- looks fine. It is stored outside. Looked at the maintenance records (from previous owner) and hydro fluid and filter were changed around 200 hours ago.

I bet your brake is stuck on. I have the same tractor and have had that happen. Follow the brake linkage back to the rear housing on each side. take a hammer and tap the lever on the housing towards the front of the tractor. There is probably corrosion where the rod enters the housing and you will have to spray with PB Blaster or such and work back and forth for a while to get it to free up. Search the forum for stuck brakes and you will see it is common.

Went home at lunch today (read these posts on my phone during that time) and checked out the brakes. They seemed very clean where they entered the housing and didn't appear to be stuck. I sprayed both sides with an "anti-seize" spray like you'd use on locked up old bolts / nuts.

After that I started the tractor and with no load on the 3pt everything seemed to be working fine. I drove over to a hillside and put it down into neutral. The machine rolled very freely so definitely no brakes stuck at this time... but who knows about previously? The parking brake light is still on but like I said it's been on for a long time with NO indication there are brakes on. Like I said, a big Chuck Norrris kick to the pedal would occasionally make it go off with no change in the tractor's performance. Then after a few more minutes it might just light back up. Since the tractor always moved fine I just ignored the light. Where is the sensor that tells the parking brake light to come on? I might solve this problem while I'm at it, even though I don't think it's necessarily related to the current issues.

Who knows, maybe they were stuck on yesterday and decided to come free since then??? I'll hook the disk back up this afternoon and see what happens with the load. I'll also give that fuel filter a check.

One other note that I didn't mention in the original post. Even after removing the disk yesterday the whine seemed to still be present on the trip back to the shop but it was very subtle and only slightly more noticeable when there was a little more torque needed (going up a small incline). The whine would have probably not even been noticeable to someone that didn't have the hours that I have on the machine... and then again, maybe it was always there and I was just listening better at the time

 

[Mechanos]

With the heavy disc installed, did you close down the rate of drop valve? If it's closed to far, it will put the hydraulics into relief... which will whine and scream as the fluid is bypassing through the relief valve.

 

[arkvet]

With the heavy disc installed, did you close down the rate of drop valve? If it's closed to far, it will put the hydraulics into relief... which will whine and scream as the fluid is bypassing through the relief valve.

At this point I have done nothing except do a minor check on the brakes and clean the air filter. Busy day at work and did a brief look at lunch today.

I have to emphasize the whine and scream was HORRIBLE and was definitely related to a heavier load (disk was down) and the forward movement at a slow speed under a good amount of torque. The "whine and scream" scared the crap out of me!!! It sounded like she was about to blow! Could have certainly been some type of relief valve. I need to go hook it back up and see if I can get it to repeat... and have my video camera ready.

 

[arkvet]

did you close down the rate of drop valve?

This is greek to me. Would this be something I should have done beforehand or something I should have only adjusted/tested if I had problems?

 

[JD5210]

Here is an online copy of the operators manaul. Look under the operating section. Looking at the manaul, I saw the rate-of-drop value/knob is directly under the center of front of the seat.

With the tractor in neutral, loader up, 3pt up, tractor off, in 2wd and on level ground. You should be able to push the tractor, if not check the brakes again.

Introduction

 

[mfreund]

For any ground breaking operation you should be in A range. It gives you a lower "gear" and is easier on the hydro pump.

 

[arkvet]

There's been some new developments in the case: I took it back to the field this afternoon. Drove around a quarter mile back to where my disk was. It did great (normal) all the way there. Hooked the disk up and took off. I disked for about 5 minutes and it was chugging right along. Then I started noticing some very subtle drops in the rpm gauge. The "miss" was subtle but there. Then the power seemed to start to dwindle again. I unhooked the disk and went back to the shop. I lifted the hood and decided to just look things over again. This is when I noticed the coolant tank was EMPTY! I hadn't even looked at the coolant tank because I checked it just a month or so ago and all was well. Also the temp gauge on the dash showed a normal temp (1/4 up from left). I went and grabbed a jug of antifreeze and started to fill it back up... when I realized it was pouring from the bottom side of the tank. There was a huge crack in the bottom of the tank.

Now I'm wondering if my whole problem was that the engine was too hot??? I'd hate to think I may have caused some damage by running it on low coolant. I know the book says check the coolant "daily" but who really does this?

Anyway, the tractor had been fully serviced when I bought it about 200 hours ago. I just ordered a new coolant tank and new air and fuel filters. Going to change the engine oil and oil filter too. The only thing I'll wait on is the transmission oil change. It really shouldn't be due for this according to the records.

I'll let you know how it works out. Any more opinions are welcome.

I've always done most ground breaking in B range but watch and listen to be sure the rpms stay at the top end (2500-2800) If the "work" is causing a bigger drag than this then yes I'll go to A range.